Why Your User Generated Content Isn’t Converting — Elijah Khasabo | Why The First 3 Seconds Count, Why UGC Must Fit Each Platform, Why Polished Content Kills Authenticity, How To Test Content At Scale, How To Find Top Creators, How To Brief Creators #422

In this episode, we talk about why most user-generated content (UGC) doesn’t convert into sales—and how to fix that. 

Elijah Khasabo, founder of Vidovo, shares hard truths about why flashy videos often flop and what brands should do instead. 

He breaks down how to create real, effective content, how to brief creators the right way, and what makes UGC actually perform on different platforms.

Topics discussed in this episode:  

• Why most UGC fails—and it’s not the creator’s fault. 
• How brands lose by not connecting with real people. 
• Why the first frame matters more than the hook. 
• What makes viral videos fail to convert. 
• How light briefs outperform rigid scripts. 
• Why UGC must be tailored by platform. 
• How to systemize content testing—not guess. 
• What bootstrapping teaches about content. 
• How Vidovo matches brands with creators. 
• Why ghosting happens—and how to prevent it. 
  
  

Links & Resources 

Website: https://vidovo.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elijah-khasabo/
X/Twitter: https://x.com/VidovoUGC
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/usevidovo

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.078)
always doesn't mean anything that's not causing conversion. The truth why most users see flops is not actually because they create it, but I think it's because of the brand's internal disconnection from real people. Nobody actually cares how good your product looks if they don't feel something. And if we don't feel some type of connection, the brand is obviously missing the point. It's not even about the hook now, it's actually about the first frame. Video game with 10 million users might look cool, but it could drive zero dollars in sales. Trust me, I've been there.

Hello welcome to another episode of the E-Commerce Coffee Break Podcast. In today's episode, we discuss why user-generated content isn't converting. Let's face it, most user-generated content might look good on the feed, but it doesn't drive sales. Brands spend big on polished, creator content and still wonder why it's nothing converting. So what's going wrong? And more importantly, how can you fix this? That's exactly what we're going to dive into today. And joining me for this today is Elijah Khasabo. He's the founder of Vidovo, a UGC platform. He bootstrapped from his college dorm.

with no outside funding. He worked with over 100 brands and over 7,000 creators helping teams create content that actually performs. So let's welcome him to the show. Hey, Elijah, how are you today?

I'm good, how are you?

As staff write into it, what's the biggest reason most user-generated content doesn't work for our brands today?

Speaker 1 (01:18.942)
I think it's a great question. Obviously everyone has their own opinion to this, but based off what we're seeing, I truly believe the truth why most YouTube flops is not actually because the creator, but I think it's because of the brands internal disconnection from real people. I think brands don't really understand their customer well enough. Too many teams are sitting in meetings just trying to reverse engineer viality instead of starting with the basic human psychology. You need to understand attention, you need to understand

Reliability needs understand emotion needs to understand trust right I believe when it comes to briefing the brands are either like okay here do whatever creator or here's a three page No script that we want you to fall word for word, which I think is incorrect right Because nobody you know I believe nobody actually cares how good your product it looks if they don't feel something in Today's age you want to especially as a consumer when reviewing these tick tocks reviewing these reels or viewing YouTube videos

We're obviously watching these people because we feel some type of connection, right? And if we don't feel some type of connection, the brand is obviously missing the point of what they're supposed to market to that individual. So I think what we've seen across thousands of videos nowadays is that what moves in the early isn't polished, it's patterns that interrupt, right? So tension in the first two seconds. It's not even about the hook now. It's actually about the first frame because people's attention spans are so quick nowadays. They will swipe, swipe, swipe just like that, right?

And then, you know, I would truly believe that proof is solved. Proof solves a real pain point. But even when brands get that part right, they blow it by throwing every ass into metal without testing. Right. There's no iteration. There's no learning loop. You just see it should be a system, not a gamble. Right. So what we're trying to tell our brands is like, build a system out of this. Have a playbook. Do things ethical. Be right, but also be creative. Right. You're just saying you are working with the creative at end of the day and you want them to show their creativity.

And obviously earlier I said like, it's either do whatever, here's a three page script. I honestly think like give them a lighter brief, like give them something so lightly. Hey, here are those notes. Here's what people talk, love about our brand. Here's what performed in the past. Just give them enough information that they can go and use their creativity and build off of that, right? That's the system. That's not a gamble right there. I truly believe if your content isn't producing insights or any positive metrics, then it's just noise. you know, noise doesn't mean anything if it's not causing conversion, right? And you know, the fix at the end of the day, it's in.

Speaker 1 (03:41.856)
It isn't more videos. It's I would honestly argue it can be less content as long as there's more clarity, direction and feedback that's actually being built in. Right. And I think most brands are just so cop and what actually looks good and without knowing why it works. Everyone wants this tick tock style you see, but doesn't stop to ask, what's the goal of the content? Right. Are you know, are you trying to get clicked? Are you trying to educate, trying to convert or trying to build trust? Because a video get with 10 million views might look cool, but.

It can drive zero dollars in sales. Trust me, I've been there. So I think I have a good history with that. But you know, that's kind of that would be my overall answer. I mean, you just need to know that if you don't know the role of each asset in your funnel, you're pretty much just burning money. So know the role of what each asset is actually doing. And I think that'll set you up in a good direction. Right.

No, absolutely, no, I would agree. So this was very packed with a lot of golden nuggets in there and I want to unpack this a little bit more. So obviously, working from a script doesn't work. I think most of our listeners can follow this kind of concept. Now, you mentioned having the right hook. I want to dive a little bit deeper into this. People might have difficulties finding the idea of what a hook is. And on that, I want to know how does a hook work differently on different platforms?

That's a great question. Obviously when you're, you know, when brands are targeting a meta audience via meta, audience via TikTok, or audience via YouTube, you're targeting typically different consumers, right? TikTok you're seeing more of the Gen Z, millennial, meta you're seeing obviously a huge mix, but mostly millennial, middle age, or older than Gen X, and YouTube is pretty much all over, right? Brands have to understand like, different, you have to have different iterations before different platforms.

And which is why we're actually telling our brands like, make sure you're making multiple variations, different hooks, different CTAs for different platforms, right? Because what might work on TikTok obviously might not work on Meta, right? Is what we're seeing. So TikTok style cars is pretty fast, pretty straight to the point. People just wanna be informed quickly. They wanna be entertained quickly. So one thing I'm noticing on TikTok, what actually performs really well is when a creator's talking from a car or talking on a walk. And the reason why I say it is because it feels like they're on FaceTime with the other individual.

Speaker 1 (05:57.736)
If you're listening to this, seriously, go on TikTok and just scroll. And most of the you'll actually watch are like the ones that feel so real that it feels like FaceTime. So I think those are the type of hooks that are working on TikTok. On Meta, we're obviously seeing more, I hate using this word, but more polished hooks. Something that hooks you in right away. Something that moms can just be attended to right away and just be informed right away, right? Whether it feels like that FaceTime vibe or not. So it really comes down to, obviously, the product, right?

A platform plays a big factor. think understand the style of what your consumers are typically viewing on those platforms is the best way to understand how to get the best hook for your product.

Totally, and I had the same experience. I had content out there which was performing very well on one platform and completely, absolutely nothing happened on another platform. And then you're standing there and say, okay, what's happening here? So I want to dive a little bit into the production of UGC videos. You mentioned it should feel natural. It should feel like it's coming from a FaceTime or whatever. Now, obviously, as a creator in the background and you helping them with that.

there needs to be a of a workflow to it to make it work. What's your solution to that? What's your approach?

That's a great question. So I follow this model and I actually share in a bunch of Slack channels I'm in. I it with as many, even if they work with us or don't. Like the light brief to like a solidified playbook model. And what that essentially is is kind of what I mentioned earlier. You're going in, you're creating a light brief. So you're putting a dos and don'ts. Honestly, you don't have to put the dos, put the don'ts. Put a brief description of what the brand is, what you guys are looking for, what's performed in the past. Here are some reference videos.

Speaker 1 (07:40.238)
We actually built this all into our platform. At first we actually didn't have it, but our goal was to build a campaign brief to actually work in favor of both sides. And then just allow the creator, as I mentioned earlier, to just use their creativity. I think brands get too caught up in the scripting and everything having to be polished right away when I think it should be opposite.

in the beginning, you need to test different versions. You need to let creators just come up with their own ideas. are the creator is literally in their name. Create is literally in their name. So it's like, let them let them just use their creativity. And then what model I recommend the best is having to make sure the brand is actually communicating with the creator throughout the whole process. I think what gets lost in our industry a lot is things become too transactional. And what we build in our platform is like, hey, let's make sure like brands can actually communicate with the creator before any transaction is done.

So if you want to confirm details before and not waste time, you can do so because most of the time you have to pay first and then get straight into it. I like brands to be able to confirm details if they would like so. Some people just pay right away, some people don't, if they'd like to. So confirm details, confirm the concepts the creator wants to go with, run it back with your team. And that allows you to have all, like say you work with 10 creators, you 10 different concepts, 10 different briefs for every single creator. And now you get to let them go about it.

No, create produce in their own way. Obviously you're able to see their previous work examples. You can kind of relate to what you're expecting or what you you'd like the creator to create. And obviously, once that content gets back to you, you're testing right. If you need extra variations, you can. You want to metal whitelist it, which is a big thing we're seeing nowadays. You can't. But once you start testing, you need to see what is performance. Let's say four videos of those 10 perform. Now this one, I recommend a brand double down.

Double down on those concepts. So now you can actually get more into a heavier briefing. Not too much scripting, but a heavier brief. Like, hey, this concept doesn't work. Let's build it on this concept. Right? So I always recommend a light brief to a brief play, because you get to get a variation of so many different content types. And if there's content types that didn't perform in brief batch one, and you want to revisit a different style with it, depending on the concept that did perform. Right? So it's all about testing.

Speaker 1 (09:52.526)
I think at the end of the day, it all comes with the testing, yeah, that's what I'll take for that.

Okay, I want to get a little bit on your own history. So you bootstrapped your business from the ground up. I'm a big fan of bootstrapping, but it's a very tough way sometimes. What taught you your own way of becoming an entrepreneur and obviously getting your own content out there that helped you in your business that you have right now?

Yeah, so being able to bootstrap puts you in a position to obviously learn a lot, right? So I was able to, we were able to test a lot of things. Obviously every dollar matters when you're bootstrapping, so it allows you to test different concepts. But when it comes to content for myself, I was actually a LinkedIn guy, right? So I used to post on, I used to actually, I started on Twitter and I went to LinkedIn. And the worst thing about it was I was very embarrassed to create content in the beginning, just because we weren't making money, we didn't have enough creators, we didn't have enough.

I felt like I was just kind of blabbing out there and like into a you know, the dark abyss like no one was actually listening to what I was creating, right? But at the end of the day, I do believe in all in all retrospect content is king What is video what it's written content is king at the end of the day, right? So being able to just write out there and say like hey, here's my story. Here's how I'm bootstrapping Here's how we're building for brands. Here's how we're building for creators and letting people know even if we had no even if I had no flaws at the time

it would start to pick up because people do find you start with one viewer, obviously, then two and 10 and 100 and it just keeps going. Right. And obviously I was just blabbing out there. It's funny because I used to actually have a ghostwriter and he kind of just helped me build up my my status. it got to a point where I would say six, seven months and I actually got sick of like the content that was being put out because it didn't sound like me. And I was starting to meet more people in person. I started to have a lot more demos, a lot more calls.

Speaker 1 (11:41.07)
I would look back at the content, like that doesn't even sound like me. So I actually let go of him. He's a great guy. I did let go of him though. And I just started writing my own content, right? And I truly believe people want to know more about you. They want to know your personal story. They don't want to see the ghost writing crap, right? So as soon as I started putting my own content out there, if we're starting performing really well, people were actually able to see who I was and what I was building. It was very exciting. So you learn a lot through bootstrapping.

You get to test a lot of things. Obviously you don't have a lot of cash, but yeah, would say content has been, you know, has been king for us over here.

I like this background that you have there and I think a lot of people can relate to that. It's very difficult and specifically if you're new in a business, you don't have a huge marketing budget, user-generated content and what you did starting and building a community is probably the right way because everything right now in the internet goes in the direction of paid content and becomes very difficult as a startup. Now I want to go back into the user-generated content side of it. How do you help?

creators and brands coming together and what does your solution offer?

Yeah. so the way we built Vodobo is, was very interesting. Just because we were bootstrapping, felt like we had to follow a different playbook than most of our competitors. Cause a majority of our competitors, would say most, not all have raised money. Right. So obviously they were so focused on investor KPIs, which ultimately mean they had to be focused on brand acquisition. Right. We actually took the opposite approach. I was like, okay, I'm willing to take the risk because if we follow that playbook, we'll probably get burned.

Speaker 1 (13:16.556)
Right? Because every other platform has more credibility than we do. But if we actually focus on the opposite of brand acquisition, focus on creator acquisition, how can we get the best creators on our platform? I felt like indirectly in the long term, in the long run, it would actually build brand experience. Like it would increase brand experience on our platform. Because at the end of the day, brands want to be where the best creators are. So I started hunting out. I just started talking to creators and creators only, popular creators on Twitter, on Facebook, some on TikTok and Instagram.

And my goal is just to build and develop relationships. Because the more I could do that, the more they could naturally just talk about Godot and actually use our platform and see the belief and vision that we are building. I don't think most platforms took that perspective. Obviously, this was a long-term play because you don't make a lot of money just getting crates on your platform, right? But once you do get a brand on, they stick and they say really good things about you because they love to craze it on your platform. So taking that high-quality approach, it's something I would recommend to any agency, to any platform that is building, like build.

your build like be creator first, right? Because the brands will come and they will stay. Brands are not gonna stay on your platform long if there's not good creators. Most of the brands that come to our platform come from others because there's such good creators on our platform. So our goal is like how can we build a fair and flexible system that gives leverage to the creator and not all the focus and leverage to the brand, right? So when we obviously building this, it made a sticky solution for both sides.

We get high quality creators and we get high quality brands. Right. So both sides are very happy. And we use a two way collaboration process on our platform. You have our marketplace and you also have our campaign feature. And the marketplace is where we list all of our vetted creators. So you have to be approved by myself. I go through about 500 per month, but a TikTok recently blew up about it. So I have about 3000 to go through this month, but that's okay. But what I do, the way I vet is you're going to have be good at creating content, have potential creative content, be an influencer. Right.

If you meet one of those three criteria, you'll be approved into the marketplace, because the marketplace allows you to list yourself for brands to actually find you, right? We're not, because most gigs, most platforms, you always have to keep applying as a creator, whereas ours, we want to have both sides have leverage, so the creators can list their own rights, right? So you're going out as a brand and you're working with a creator one-on-one with better creators. Our campaign features are bread and butter. This is essentially where a brand is creating a brief for creators to apply to.

Speaker 1 (15:39.79)
And once you can put your creator preferences, you can put your asset information in there, you can put product details, you can put all your campaign brief info. But what you're doing is basically, the simplest terms, you're creating an application for these creators. They'll apply, you'll see their name, you'll see their proposal message, you'll see some video examples, and you'll see their pricing range. Because on the campaigns, you actually let the brand list their own budget range, whereas Archiboy's is up to the creator. So both sides have leverage in both ways, and I think that was the best way to connect brands with creators in the most ethical and fair way.

Totally. think this transparency that you have there makes everyone's life much, much easier. Talk me through a timeline for a brand. What's the usual time before they find creators before they can really start a campaign?

Great question. So timeline is it's honestly it's like a subjective term on our platform. So obviously once the creator is approved into a campaign, they have about 10 10 calendar days to deliver the content. Right. But realistically, I don't know if you know, but early in this podcast, what I mentioned was we actually allow the brand and the creator to communicate before any transaction is done. Right. So as a brand, you could.

Essentially, you could message 10 creators and you could let them know like, Hey, we need our content by next Wednesday and this Tuesday. So you mean your content by next Wednesday. So not the 10 calendar days, but like, Hey, let's say six, seven calendar days. you can do that because most creators are obviously going to agree if it's going to improve their chances of being approved. Right. So we're very flexible on how deadlines are, but timeline to launching a brief takes about five minutes. Once you launched a brief.

I usually recommend brands give it at least 48 to 72 hours to just let the applicants roll in. I think three days is typically enough to let like all the active applicants roll in. Once you're over that number of like 100, 200 applicants, I would recommend start sourcing. Some start as early as 20 applicants. Like you can do whatever you want. But I usually recommend 72 hours, right? And after that, obviously go in, then approve the creators you want to work with. And obviously once you approve the creators, the deadline then starts.

Speaker 1 (17:44.526)
Right. So it's like a very flexible deadline because you can pretty much dictate how you want it to go. But on platform and rule, it is 10 counter days.

Makes sense. Now, lot of our listeners running DTC brands, having e-commerce businesses out there, for them, obviously, samples, giving samples of their product to a creator is crucial. How do you deal with this house? How does that work?

That's a great question. we, so it's, it's funny because obviously as a brand, have to factor in the cost of the product plus the cost of the crater, unless you go the gifted route, because we do allow for gifted campaigns. have noticed though, majority of our campaigns, would say about 90 % have been paid this year. Last year, which was basically our first fiscal year, say about 70, 60 to 70 % were paid.

I don't know if it's because our ICP has changed, like we're working with bigger brands. don't know, or I don't know if it's just because brands are just under the creative comms, just growing and most quality creators aren't doing get to campaigns. We're seeing kind of answers to both right now. So what I tell most brands is you obviously have to have a set amount of budget for this platform to work for you, right? Because if you're very worried about the product or the sample of the product being

that costs affecting you, we're probably not the best solution for you, right? And I don't mean that with any disrespect, it's just the truth. We don't want brands to worry about that. But then you also worry about the other retrospective is like, we do have enough money. We do understand the cost and all that stuff, but we just don't want the creator ghosting or not doing the content or doing anything like that, right? The best thing about our platform is we actually allow an escrow system.

Speaker 1 (19:33.838)
Within the payment right which protects both the brand the creator obviously mostly favoring the brand So if anything does go wrong obviously we can just reimburse you right so we were very very protective of both sides And we haven't really ran into any issues like our cases are out to pretty low on on ghosting issues Just because we're so selective on how we go about creators that I do notice when you just like approve any creator obviously ghosting this can be a

very big thing, but the more you focus on quality, the less you have to deal with samples being destroyed or samples not even being used or the creator going ghost, right? So I just let the brands like, hey, we are protecting you regardless of what happens. I wouldn't worry too much because we do have a good selective batch of creators, but definitely, definitely protect you on both ends.

never thought about the concept of ghosting on creators, but it makes perfectly sense. as a brand, that can be a real problem if they are ghosting you. Now, talk me through or can you share an example or case study of brands you have worked with and what kind of results they saw?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'll give this first case study, because this is our first ever case study. And was also our first customer. So it was really good to get a success story from her. When I was actually first pitching for Dovo, I couldn't close the deal to save my life. It was probably the toughest thing ever. And this is when we kind of operated like a SaaS agency. It was a little different back then. And I knew we had to switch it up.

I'll never forget, was demoing this brand called New Fix, and I was pitching a product that actually wasn't even finished. I was like, well, let me just go pitch this product. Like, I'm not closing business anyways. Like, I'll just try something new. And it was our campaign feature, which is what our bread and butter is today. And I'll never forget, within 10 minutes into the call, she was like, I want to sign on right now. And I told her, like, well, it's not ready yet. So I was honestly like, I was just pitching a that wasn't done, because I didn't really expect.

Speaker 1 (21:26.83)
You know, a brand to buy because no one was buying. I was, I was out about 30 demos at that time. I'm going to close like two deals, which are both more referrals. I had to close those, but she, she got, once we finished over the weekend, she got on Monday, got her content by Thursday and started running ads. It performed really well. So she saw, I think it was our first success story. She saw about four X row as, um, see our cost per click reduced by I think 40%. This is, this is on our website and our click through rate was about two to 3%. I could be wrong on that. Right. But that was our first success story to show like, okay,

cool, UGC is really working for these brands. And that was our first time to own this brand. Now we have a bunch of success. Brands are consciously using our content for performance, right? Like they're just like, hey, we're using photo about getting the content, just putting it towards at a meta, meta or TikTok. One of our most recent cases that was, I still don't actually believe, but I guess it's true. And one of our agencies, cause we do support agencies now, approached us with three brands that they wanted to work with.

One of the brands was actually a chocolate brand. They bought about like 10 to 15 assets. I think about six of the assets performed, right, out of the 10. I think it was actually 10, not 15. And one of the videos got 106 ROAS. The brand spent $100 and generated, I think 11.4, 11.6, if I'm at this right, but just south of $12,000. And I'm still in shock, right? But the best thing about stuff like that, especially for agencies,

when they show their clients that their clients are more inclined to want to use UGC with them, right? So we allow agencies to work with us, we're very agency friendly. But the biggest metric that most of our brands are tracking is usually ROAS, reducing cost per click, reducing CPA especially. And the organic end is mostly just views and engagement. Most of our brands just use this for paid, not a lot of organic stuff. But yeah, I have a bunch of case studies. Actually, I have to upload six more cases into our website that are kind of just sitting there.

But yeah, I'd say that's probably the most recent one. That was very exciting.

Speaker 2 (23:25.646)
Now obviously if you have content that goes viral, the numbers go through the roof and that's the whole goal at the end of the day. you just said that you're working also with agency, who overall is your perfect customer?

Yeah, it's a great question because I'm still figuring that out. Obviously, ideally, we want to work with more brands. What I have noticed, though, it's been very easy to work with agents. It's very easy to work with brands, but agencies use us legit as like a tool into their into their systems already. So they'll go to their brands, pitch their brands like, hey, we now offer UGC or hey, we are using the double for UGC. Whether they white label so they don't white label us. Right. I lost the agency plan.

late, late 24. And since then we've onboarded over, I believe over 12, 13, 14, I think 14, 15 agencies. I was only turned one, which is pretty good, right? But they've all, they've all seen success with their clients. And I think, I think it's awesome because agencies bring multiple brands. Obviously, it's good for the creators because creators are fed more brands to work with, right? And it's also good for the actual brands, like not coming through agencies because they're like, oh, what cool, all these creators are working with these type of brands. This is all the content you guys have created.

So agencies really have been building our cycle in a way. Funny enough, we're on-voicing more agencies and brands right now, but some months it's different, some months it's more brands and agencies. But I don't have a perfect customer, because I love both. But I would say we definitely support both.

Okay, that sounds good. Tell me about your pricing structure. How do you charge for your service?

Speaker 1 (24:58.542)
Yeah, of course. we are subscription based. as of today, which is why we're actually raising our prices this week. But as of today, we charge $249, 399, 699. So $249, a month is for the brands. One's like a limited version of the $249. One seat, one brand. You only do one campaign. The 399s are more unlimited version. It's two seats, two brands, and it's $20 per additional seat. So there's no limit to the amount of seats and brands you can have.

and then you get up to 10 campers, you do paid and gifted. So both are month to month and we have a two week trial. Adding the two week trial has probably been the biggest thing about it because you know, again, as I mentioned earlier, we allow you to communicate with the creators beforehand. So essentially, the brand's risk is very low because they could basically go on our platform, launch a brief, talk to 100 creators, not spend a single dime. And if they're like, hey, this platform isn't a fit, they could just cancel. Right. And I say that on every single demo.

And typically when the brand hears like, whoa, there is no risk here. Like why not just test it? Right. So our conversion rate is so high. And because we built such a good platform, a good product and have such a good creators, the churn is so low. that the adding a 2-way trial has been probably the biggest plus for us because we built the product in the, in the right way. Right. Whereas if we did build the product, let's say we just focus on only brands, brands, brands, and you know, the prayers weren't that good. The 2-way trial wouldn't really work. Right. So.

It's been the biggest conversion thing for us. And we also have a managed service, which starts at 5,000 a month, which if brands don't want to use a self-service platform, they can obviously work with us through that.

I like the idea with the two weeks of free trial. And as you said, you really get a feeling of who the creators are. You can reach out. So I think that's very transparent, makes it very easy to make an informed decision if you want to go with your platform. Elijah, before our coffee break comes to an end today, is there anything you want to share with our listeners that we haven't covered yet?

Speaker 1 (26:53.694)
Um, that's a, that's a great question. I would, I would just say, you know, be creative, be open, um, to the founders that are, you know, bootstrapping their own brands. Keep going. You know, I believe in you. A lot of people do. Uh, the light is, there's light definitely at end of the tunnel. The first six to eight months were probably the darkest times for me, but we got through it, right? You don't, you don't get through it by quitting. Um, to the creators, if there are any creators listening, uh, you know, keep, keep creating great content, keeping true to yourself, keep creating content that aligns with your values.

And yeah, just be curious. think that's the best thing, the best advice he gives, being curious. And this goes for everybody. I think curiosity is probably the biggest driver for me because it allowed me to kind of just drop any ego I had in the beginning of the level and just learn from anybody. I don't care what type of experience you have. I don't care what type of money you're making. If you did something that is, you know, that I wanted to learn about, I will sit there and I will pick your brain apart and learn everything I can.

I'm a big person on learning. Even I was down in Bentonville last month because we're working with lot of retail brands now. And I walked through Walmart for two hours, every single aisle, just learning the science behind retail. Sometimes you just have to be curious and be able to learn because the more information you have, there's obviously more you can do.

Yeah, I think that's very good advice you have there. I couldn't agree more. Be curious as a founder, as an entrepreneur, you might have your tough times, but just push through, be curious, and you eventually will make it. Where can people go and find out more about you?

Yeah, you guys could, I'm a LinkedIn guy, so not as much as I used to be, but you could find me on LinkedIn. I'm Elijah Casabo, Venobo is also on LinkedIn. I'm also frequently on, I'm more of a lurker on Twitter, I don't really post. So those are the two platforms I'm mainly on, and I also do have a personal website, but I don't really touch it. So it's just ElijahCasabo.com, but LinkedIn is probably the best place you could find me, and Venobo.com to find Venobo, obviously.

Speaker 2 (28:46.968)
Perfect. will put all the links in the show notes, then you just one click away. Elijah, thanks so much for giving us an overview of what really works in UGC. I hope a lot of our listeners will reach out to you and do the two-week trial. And I'm sure a lot of people will love it and become new customers of yours. Thanks so much for your time today.