How AI Is Making Marketing Attribution (Finally) Easy— Scott Desgrosseilliers | Why Brands Fail Without Attribution, How AI Changes Tracking, Why Ad Platform Data Misleads, What Strategy Ensures Accurate Measurement, Why To Focus On New Customers (#417)

In this episode, Scott Desgrosseilliers, CEO of Wicked Reports, discusses the complexities of marketing attribution and the common pitfalls brands face in tracking their ad campaigns. 

He emphasizes the importance of having a reliable attribution source, the misconceptions surrounding ad platform reporting, and introduces his Five Forces system designed to help marketers optimize their strategies. 

The conversation also highlights the role of AI in improving attribution accuracy and shares success stories from brands that have effectively utilized these strategies. 

Use code COFFEEBREAK at 5Forces.com to get $800 off (regular price: $1,500). 

Topics discussed in this episode:  

• Why ad platform data misleads brands and wastes spend. 
• How 30-day lookback windows create false attribution signals. 
• What measurement strategy every brand needs for accurate tracking. 
• Why paid media should prioritize new customer acquisition. 
• How to segment new vs. repeat customers effectively. 
• What the Five Forces system reveals about marketing alignment. 
• Why brands are flying blind without attribution frameworks. 
• How AI is revolutionizing the attribution process. 
• What dedicated onboarding support means for implementation. 
• How contact-based pricing works in attribution tools. 

Links & Resources 

Website: https://www.wickedreports.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottd71/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WickedReports/

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.056)
Think of attribution as keeping score. And you want to keep score with someone that's being fair at keeping the score. They create a source of truth that isn't really the source of

What's the biggest lie ad platform tells you when you look into the reports?

I think the biggest one is when...

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Ecommerce Coffee Break podcast. In today's episode, we're digging into the challenge that frustrates a lot of marketers and merchants out there, tracking what actually is working in your ad campaigns. For years, marketing attribution has been confusing, unreliable, and often flat out wrong. But now, thanks to AI, that's finally starting to change. And we will talk about how this can help you. As always, I have an expert with me. Today, it's Scott Desgrosseilliers

get that name right, you will help me with that afterwards. He's joining me and he's the CEO and founder of Wicked Reports, a leading first party attribution platform for high-growth e-commerce brands. It was over a decade of experience analyzing billions in ad spend. helped marketers cut through the noise to find what's really driving return on investment. He's the creator of the Five Forces system, and we will touch on that, and a proven framework that turns messy marketing data into clear, confident decisions. So we have a lot to cover. Let's welcome him to the show. Hi, Scott. How are you today?

Speaker 1 (01:16.418)
Hi Claus, I'm thrilled to be here.

Scott, before we get started, help me with your last name. How do you pronounce it the right way?

Well, the English version de Grosier, but the French de Grosly. So you were close. You were bad. Yeah, you know, I'd have a long unhappy life if I got upset with how people pronounce my last name. It's really right. So I get over that quick.

Ha ha!

Speaker 2 (01:41.902)
Now let's drive into the topic. Attribution, big, big topic out there. What are the biggest mistakes that you see brands make when they are tracking their ads and their campaigns?

Well, there's a lot of them, but I mean, first of all, you need a trusted, accurate source of attribution and you've got to make whatever way you're going to keep. Think of attribution as keeping score and you want to keep score with someone that's doing a being fair, keeping the score. Cause if you're relying on the ad platforms while you need them and they're very helpful tools to grow a business, they're not the business of let me tell you to go spend money with my competitor.

they're trying to gobble as much money as they can. So first you need accuracy. so people will often or Google Analytics 4 is not really that accurate for attribution. It's a great tool for some things, but it's not a attribution tool. So that's the number one issue I see is that they start relying on, they create a source of truth that isn't really the source of truth. The second big issue is you got to get aligned on a measurement strategy.

because you have a marketing strategy, you spend a lot of time developing your marketing strategies, you actually also need a strategy for measurement. Because otherwise there's a lot of stress and drama and you know, no one needs more stress and drama in their life. But just imagine, you know, your boss, you know, let's say you're the marketing manager and you've been given a budget and your boss goes in and looks at the Shopify data and decides that according to Shopify is this, he looks in there because that's where the orders are. And he sees a lot of direct.

and say, Hey, why isn't there any more marketing answers in here? Or he goes into Google analytics and sees a lot of direct, he sees a very low amount attributed to Facebook, even though it might be a huge driver of the reason why people are end up converting direct is because they heard about the brand on Facebook. And so that's why getting aligned on the strategy of how you're going to measure and choosing the right way to measure can prevent a lot of stress. So I a lot of trouble there.

Speaker 1 (03:44.102)
And then the third one I'll touch on briefly is that related to your strategy is paid media often should be driving new customer acquisition. But then when you're looking at a scoreboard that piles in new and repeat customers. And so you see when a lot of this, you're not your ROAS or the ROAS is lying. Well, it's because it's piling in repeat customers that you may have bought off your email, off your SMS, or just brand awareness, they're already repeat customers going to your website. And so

Those all get piled in and then you see these high return on ad spend numbers, but you're not getting growth. It's because the new people aren't coming in. So not segmenting new versus repeat performance and focusing on that one is a huge misconception that costs you a lot of money.

Let's unpack this step by step. So the first thing you mentioned is that the different platforms, might it be Meta, might it be Google, trying to claim the attribution, the conversion. Obviously, reason there, you should spend more money with them. My experience over the last, I don't know, 15, 20 years is that the reporting is never accurate. It never matches. If you look into Shopify and then you compare this to any other platform you're spending money, it's a complete mess. What's the biggest lie ad platform tells you?

when you look into the reports.

I think the biggest one is when, and they've gotten a little better, but when they do 30 day view look back. So that means if you get a sale, the app platform is very good at taking credit and you know, you do need to pump your sales in to give them a better signal. But when you tell them you got a sale yesterday, we're taping this on July 9th, some platforms will go back and this is including SMS platforms in Apple.

Speaker 1 (05:30.382)
They'll go back 30 days and they might say, well, we had an impression 29 days ago. So that would be what June 11th. I don't even know what I mean. I get, we're all busy, you know, working kids, family life. You're telling me 29 days ago, I looked at something and now today I bought that's just, that's the biggest lie out of all of them. Even though there is some relevance to views leading to a halo effect, the ad platform started to take full credit for it. And it really only deserves some.

Now, when it comes to attribution, obviously, there's a multi-point journey from a customer. They might see your ad on one platform on one device and then come back later with, for instance, retargeting and buy somewhere else. And then the reporting from another tool kicks in. Why are so many brands wasting money on retargeting when it is not really feasible where it comes from?

Yeah, I think part of it is a misunderstanding that you have to understand the ad platforms, a lot of them are running AI bidding now. So you have to tell the platforms what you're trying to do with your objective. But when you pick, I want more sales as your objective, which I mean, that's why we're doing all this is more sales. But when you pick that as your objective, it means that if you're not careful, like let's take meta, they're going to expand your outside of what you're targeting and start.

and saying, my AI is gonna learn who we really should target. And then what it finds is that people that are at the bottom of your funnel that are already brand aware and in market, or people that have already bought from you before are much easier to convince to buy. And so they'll just start doing that because the AI is all logic and it's like, okay, this segment of people is responding better.

And my goal is to generate more sales. And when I show the ads to them, more sales happen. So I'm going to keep doing that. So to fix that, you need to get your signal to the ad platforms. You need to first, when you create the campaign, optimize around a custom event. And that custom event needs to be only new customer purchases, ideally of specific products, so that you can then create tight campaigns around the messaging you'd use to convert someone brand new.

Speaker 1 (07:44.48)
and then you only target new, but then you need to signal that it's only the new. if you get a repeat, you don't send that signal. You have that campaign already built to optimize around new net new customer purchases only. And then that can help alleviate that pain. Because otherwise, yeah, they're going to turn into retargeting every time I did a study of I studied almost 60,000 meta campaigns, I had my data team pilot all together, we compared first click cost to cost to acquire customer versus last click.

in new verse repeat. And it was it was a 4x difference. Advantage campaigns are 4x better at bottom of the funnel. Because that's just what so there is I'd say use advantage all day for shopping or if you're just if you're already a well known brand, because these are optimized around the big spenders. So well known brand like a Yeti mug, everyone knows Yeti. They're just trying to get anyone to click and buy on Facebook, then yeah, they've already done all their top of the funnel work.

But the brands we focus on, Ecom, know, 1 million to 50 million, you still got to earn that brand awareness usually. And so you need measurement and you need signal, and then you need to analyze correctly, you need all three in order to really get out of that stagnant growth cycle, because you're not filling your funnel at the top. So that's where you got to do, that's where the work is.

That's where the work is. on that, our listeners are probably very aware and dealing with this issue on a daily basis, specifically if they're small and medium enterprises, scaling enterprises, businesses. It's a constant battle with the different platforms. You mentioned that having a strategy, that having a framework and systems behind it makes it measurable and makes it doable. So you came up with the five forces system. Tell me about it. What is it? How does it work?

Sure. The five forces system was my response to 25,000 hours of working on marketing attribution, which I don't advise. That's how long that's why I do consider myself an expert. You that are, be very smart if I did 25,000 hours on something and I wasn't an expert. So we kept probing and working this problem for years and thinking, it's training. we just need, cause we do, we feel like we have the most accurate data, but

Speaker 1 (09:59.936)
even if someone argue elsewise, we have very accurate data that's segmented, numerous repeat and top of the funnel is what we focus on mostly. But that wasn't still enough because then the marketers then like, okay, I this big pile of data. I, how do I slice and dice it? What's the perfect attribution model I should use? And I realized I knew early, but I realized that, you know, well, it depends on what you're trying to do because based on what your goal of your campaign is, you should be measuring it differently and different timeframe.

You should look at different columns, different trends matter. And it got more and more complex. And I had trainings and we had webinars, know, dedicated account managers work with you. And I was like, well, if they come in with a marketing strategy, we need to align our measurement strategy with them. And so that's how I came up with the five forces is because we, was training up AI, not just to be a chat bot, but to actually be your data, your attribution expert for you.

and save you time, actually find the opportunities to scale or the waste and then support it with evidence. So it's not a black box. Just listen to Wicked AI. It lays out the case concisely because it has to be concise too. You don't want to read three paragraphs for every ad set you're running. You're going to be like, this is boring. I don't want to do this. So the framework I came up with is five forces is the first one is intention. So for your marketing, you set your intention.

And let's just, use the example, acquire new customers, because it will relate to attribution challenges and what I think people need to fix the most. So let's say one of my intentions for that campaign is I want to acquire new customers for this campaign. So then the second step is expectation. That one's actually probably the most important because you need an expectation to align your team, particularly the person with the budget, but also everyone with what, how I'm going to keep score and how long the game's going to run.

because if you're acquiring new customers and you're a smaller econ brand, meaning one to 50 million, you're probably not acquiring customers same day you run the ad, at least not enough to be profitable. There's like a warmup sequence. Let's just call it two weeks. It's probably a month, but let's go with two weeks because people have the patience for two weeks. So you get to align on, we're going to do two weeks. We're only going to count the new customers to determine the acquisition costs and CAAC.

Speaker 1 (12:21.742)
not the overall, so we don't count the repeats when we're keeping score. And then that means our North Star is new customer acquisition costs. So that, then we're going to set what's called a scale, chill or kill zone before we've even launched the campaign. Chill is like, let's say I'm an econ brand and I'm selling something for a hundred bucks, maybe 50 to 70. If I can get something, a customer between 50 and $70, given my product costs, I'm going to chill. I'm going to keep spending the same amount.

because if you set a single target, you're either up or down each day, and then you got to go look at the data and think, and all of sudden you lost 20 minutes looking at the data or oh geez, is it going downhill? The boss looks at it, you know, all this like psychic stress happens. So chill means both psychically, but also from a optimization standpoint, I don't need to do anything here unless I want to. I can chill out.

And then scale is, you know, in our example of if the chill zone's 50 to 70 for NCAC, scale would be below 50. I want to scale my budget. I'm making a lot of money here. Let's push it to the metal. And then above 70 would be the kill zone, or it would mean I have to do optimization work. I may not have to kill it, but if I don't fix it, I am going to have to kill it. So you set that in advance so that everyone's on the same page.

I'm going to take a month. It's going to take a month. We're going to go by NCAC. This is when we're going to have to make changes and you get it logged in your meetings. So then you have the budget holder on board because inevitably like, you know, and I've been guilty of this as a founder too, you get in there and you just start causing havoc. So you need like a log. You need a log of the decisions of, Hey, you agreed. We've made a strategy all around this and now you're going to cut the ad spend in four days because the weekend was bad.

The weekend was never gonna be good. was the first four days of the campaign. We need them up. So you get aligned ahead of time. Then you take the action of launching the campaign, or if you've already launched it, you take the action to optimize. That's pretty straightforward. Then the outcome occurs. The outcome is when you measure based on the agreed upon measurement strategy. So for new customer acquisition, you can measure with a full funnel, multi-touch, only the new customers though. So there's different measurement points that count.

Speaker 1 (14:42.306)
based on what you're trying to do. And in this example, new customers, want to say only any touch points up to when they became a new customer will give credit to. So there's the different outcomes and you measure and you map it against your scale, chill, kill zone. And then based on that, the fifth force is optimization based on what you're trying to do and where you map. There's different indicators of what needs to be fixed. And I broke those down into traffic. It may be,

You're trying to buy new customers, but it's all repeat visitors coming to the website. That's a common issue, particularly in the age of AI. So you got to make sure your exclusions are populating, turn off your advantage plus audiences. If they're expanding, they're turning it into retargeting. That's a common issue. You're not even buying the right traffic to begin with, even though you set it up right. The AI caused havoc. Or is it a creative? Is it a conversion rate issue or a hook issue? Or is it budget or is it customer quality? You did all your math based on a certain AOV.

but it's a shopping campaign and they're just optimizing on all the cheap products. So you're getting your volume, but you're not getting your AOV to match what you need. So then that means that optimization is you got to switch out the product or you got to work on your upsell box. So the data can provide a map and a compass on where to go, but what helps makes it achievable is the strategy. then because we get like 240 columns with trends, it hones it down to like 10 that matter and interprets what they're telling.

I liked it. And for our listeners, that might sound very complex, but it absolutely makes sense. And I think just to highlight the scale, chill, and kill strategy as an outcome for a meeting, for instance, and knowing what you actually do is really gold because that makes it so much easier to understand on how to manage your business. Now, obviously, there's a million and one data points that are coming into this kind of system. AI helps there. Tell me about how your solution

works on a day-to-day basis and who's working with it.

Speaker 1 (16:42.296)
So our sweet spot is e-commerce brands that are already successful marketers. So we don't want just people just starting out trying to make their first, you know, half a million dollars. that's an incredible achievement. You have, you got to work on other things before you should be in data messing around too heavy. Generally, there's always the unicorn that is good at that, but that's my opinion. Get something that just sells first, then you get all into the crazy data stuff with us. So we like brands one to 50 million.

e-commerce that are optimizing for lifetime value or for repeat purchases. Because ideally, then you're going to, in your approach as a full funnel marketer. Because if you're just trying to always just sell, if you just like selling a toothbrush or something like 10, 20 bucks, you can just use AI and just sell them, and you don't really need a sophisticated measurement strategy if your product's really cheap and you don't have any repeat purchases. Where the value of attribution comes into play is,

Identifying the cold traffic that becomes high lifetime value over time because those don't look profitable to your competition if they're in looking at we'll just stick with meta could be on any platform if you're just in meta and you're looking at the cold traffic they don't look as good as they will with an attribution platform designed to exploit that opportunity for you That's where your edge becomes because everyone's AI is gonna get good at retargeting people in market And it's gonna be who can get people into your brand first is where the wins come

That's why attribution is important for that one to 50. You get above 100 million. I Rockerbox is great platform, but you get where you're going to be. You have so much spend that you need to maybe do media mix modeling or just more black box theoretical stuff. That's where you'd graduate out of Wicked Reports, usually. We have people in that space that still love our stuff, but we're optimizing our features for one to 50 million. So that being said, how it works, we based on first party data since 2010.

13. I tried to get patents in it. Don't try to get patents. It's tough. Waste a lot of time and money. I don't think I ever got them, but at least they're prior art. But I started from the premise of all the platforms are BS. I'll just pull the sales and start from there and look back. And so that's how we've always worked and still work. had this time-ish attribution time machine. We store every click that ever comes in and we identify some people immediately. Some people through your CRM data.

Speaker 1 (19:07.948)
some through your sales data, but whenever we learn about someone, we then look back all through time and try and figure out who it is. So we always are looking back rather than, that's just how we do it. And then as people, as we identify ad clicks or marketing that happen, we look forward forever to try to find revenue. And then, you know, and then we calculate all the metrics you could ever want on the fly from there. But then the big.

revelation for me with this five forces was then okay, which I do have a training course at five forces. But then I was like, okay, people have to go get trained on they got to be interested in it, which fortunately, some people are. But what about the people that want to just use it and yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you, who cares? Just give me the ball. So we took eight months to train AI, which is now ready. So now I'm on the podcast tour. So instead of doing all those processes, you can come in and just say, Hey, what am I trying to do? You set your intention.

And then you set your scale chill kill zone. And then you hit a button and our AI just monitors and then buckets all the insights with a dollar value of these. This is the money ad spend that you can scale the ad to chill ad spend to kill, or we have another one learning if it's new and we shouldn't advise you. And then we had to work really hard to make it concise, just down to like three bullets per area of

what the evidence is behind what our recommendation is based on your input. So you're working with the AI and with our measurement strategy. So we like give you the measurement strategy part for you and you just act on the data.

I wish I would have a tool like this years ago, because that makes life so much easier. Because digging into the numbers each and every day is just very tiring. Now, what kind of APIs and interfaces do you have with different systems to pull the data from?

Speaker 1 (21:00.844)
We've got over a hundred and then we have a custom API that a lot of people wire other stuff into. Shopify and Woo are our most popular. We're in Clavio, a ton of other CRMs, ad platforms, MetaGoogle, TikTok, Microsoft, Microsoft Search, don't sleep on that. People do pretty well in Microsoft Search, I wanna mention that. Snap, PIN, we auto-track emails. We do some social as well so we can track your results. But yeah, I don't know.

Over 100.

That should make everyone happy who has whatever text that they have.

Sure, there's some that we don't have, but the API works quite well. And yeah, there's always a new stack, right? Every day there's some new deck. So we're doing our best.

Would you share some success stories or case studies of businesses that have effectively used your tool and what kind of results they saw?

Speaker 1 (21:53.038)
Sure. My favorite one, is somewhat well-known brand, Chi Chin Chong. Are you familiar with the movies? Yeah. So the Chi Chin Chong brand uses us. so Mark Cuban had done a tweet. Well, the time was, I guess it's still a tweet, even though it's X and said, advertisers waste so much money on retargeting. I don't care how many times Chi Chin Chong shows me this ad. I'm never going to buy it. I'm not in market. This proves how inaccurate it is.

And we actually knew that Chi-Cheng Chong was just printing money on X with their, you know, they're good marketers also, but they, it was working quite well. And then X reached out to us through, because they said, went to Chi-Cheng Chong said, you know, that was kind of a viral drama for them. Said, Hey, how come you are able to, and other people aren't. They said, well we use WIC reports data. So we know, we see the actual order IDs from people that clicked on your ads so we can stitch together.

We have the visible proof that people clicked on an X, and didn't just see it, but clicked on it. Cause that's a higher signal. mean, impressions still have weight, but the click is a high signal. I mean, it's so hard to get people's clicks. So you get that, that's a big signal. And then they could tie them to sales. they, you know, we got, have the case study on our website, but they, you know, they do extremely well. And that was one well-known brand. Our origin story is a guy, a friend of mine was selling lobsters online.

And he created a store. He got popular with Groupon, which was a deal site. I don't think they're around anymore, but they were huge. And then they started to peter off and he tried Facebook and it didn't work. And he called me up. said, Facebook sucks for lobster sales. I spent 4,000 bucks. It was my whole budget. I only sold one, one set of tails or whatever. He goes, I lost my shirt. I was like, seems like people might buy from you. mean, I don't know right away, some random lobster guy, maybe they need to warm up or something.

So we hit on this idea that we were gonna click on the Facebook ad, opt into a special offer, which would just, he'd collect their email, then you just redirect them to the same deal he was gonna sell them, but then he could email them. And then I would pull the orders every day and match them up. And we found that he was actually made 10 to one on his Facebook's ban. It just took three months to make it.

Speaker 1 (24:18.892)
because they had to get the emails, they had to get warmed up. he went from, you know, gonna abandon Facebook to spending millions, a couple million now he's spent on Facebook over the years. That was another one, Arrego shoes. They did something where, yeah, where they had lower, they'd lower their, most, the most common brand one is that people will lower their NCAC. And part of it is they just need the visibility of segmenting new verse repeat, which we've been doing since day one.

because first you get a scoreboard and then you, it's almost like if you're trying to lose weight, you got to have a scale and you get on to, my God, or you can, or you can maybe see, but then the scale really hits you at home. And then you start making changes and hope that things pan out. with, with them, they had lowered their NCAC because we were able to segment it for them. And then they're able to say, Hey, wait a minute. We have a, a new visit percentage that comes through. So for your cold traffic, it should be a hundred percent new visit in theory. It never is.

If you can get to 60, because the platform's just, I don't know, they don't just don't always listen. And they're not full true for their targeting. Like even them, they're going to let some people sneak. You can get about 50 % new visit, then that's going to be cold traffic. And then ideally, it's going to turn into customers. But by, you know, working through those data points of the new visit percentage and the NCAC, they're able to lower their new customer acquisition meaningfully, like 20 something percent. That makes a big difference.

Totally, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:44.77)
No, does. And I think a lot of brands out there waste just a ton of budget in basically retargeting existing customers, which you said that's where the money lies and you rather want to go for new customers, new traffic. Now tell me about the onboarding process for a new client of yours. How does it work? How long does it take? What steps are involved?

When the person first signs up, they're going to be presented with the wicked success steps. It's a series of steps on the page where you go through and integrate your ad platforms, your CRM, your cart, and you set up tracking on the ads. You will also have a series of short training videos on how to use the software. But in addition to that, you have a dedicated onboarding manager who's with you until you've made a data-driven decision. This was a big change where we're like, the whole point of this is to

do something different. If they're just like, cause we got people that, wow, this data is great. And then they didn't actually do anything with it. And it's like, well, okay, eventually why are you going to pay us to stare at more numbers? We'll take the money. We're a startup. Don't get me wrong. But like we need you to do something different or why are you going to eventually you're going to turn. So now we orientated around the whole focus of the onboarding journey for us is getting you to a decision based on the data.

So you come in and say, I'm having a problem with new customer acquisition. Great, we have a templated view. You click, it creates it. And then all the columns you need are there. And the ones you don't are out of your focus. You don't have to worry about them. You can still add them in, but you don't need to. And then the onboarding manager knows, okay, you're worried about new customer acquisition. Here's the training video on how to make the decisions there and et cetera. And then now coming out is the AI you can set up and then the AI will know. And then the AI will tell you once there's something to do as well.

That's our whole focus is that you should be deciding something. And too many people would just kind of look at it to keep an eye on it. You could just tell them they didn't really have a measurement. Great markers, but they only have a measurement strategy. So we're like, okay, we have to double down on this because that's our whole business value. We should be providing.

Speaker 2 (27:49.858)
I like the approach of having somebody dedicated helping you and then AI takes over at some point. And I think it's also a bit of a mind set shift there in marketing in general. Back in the past, great marketers were creative. Now they are more like a data scientist than anything else. But this kind of transition and understanding the data and really focusing on the right data, I think that's a bit of a learning curve for a lot of marketers out there. And when you help from your side, that only can lead to good results.

Now tell me about your pricing structure. How do you charge for wicked reports?

Right now we charge based on contacts. So how many people we can track. And so we start at $500 a month, go up from there. mean, our most expensive customers may be like five, 6,000 a month, and our lowest is 500. The AI is an optional feature where you get it for free for 60 days. So we want it to already be have saved you money or identified places to scale before you pay for it. That's a $200 month add on. It's actually more than make its money.

And then we have another product coming out called Signal, which sends the new customer, new product data to Facebook so that you can choose it as your optimization target. So that meta then orients around that. And so that's another $100 if you want that. Sometimes people already have it set up. There's other good solutions that people may have. mean, BlotOut's a good one, Elavar, people might be using something to signal already.

But if not, have an, for people that are specifically new customer acquisition focused, particularly for specific products, that's our wheelhouse why you'd want to use our product instead of theirs. Otherwise they have many more options and you'd want to use theirs.

Speaker 2 (29:32.782)
Now, I think you're saving so much money by doing the targeting and everything right when it comes to setting up your campaigns to the tracking. I think it's a no-brainer to invest in Vickert reports because I'm pretty sure you will see results very, very quickly. Before our coffee break comes to an end today, Scott, is there anything you want to share with our listeners that we haven't covered yet?

For those that are interested in marketing measurement strategy or frameworks, it's my life's work, fiveforces.com. And there's a course there you can go through. I took great pains to make it concise, so it's not gonna take you like 80 hours. It's like a four hour course. And it lays out everything in great detail. And for the listeners here, we can give them $800 off, use e-comm coffee break code. I'm happy to see them on the course as well.

great.

Excellent. Where can people go to find out more about you?

LinkedIn. you know, I very unique last name. I'm the only Scott deGrocier on there or Scott Wicker Reports will pull me up. That's where I'm most active or wickerreports.com.

Speaker 2 (30:39.8)
I will put the links in show notes as always, then you just one click away. Scott, thanks so much giving us an overview. Again, I'm grateful that there's a tool like this now out there. Should have been there 15 years ago, otherwise I wouldn't have that much white hair. But I think for our listeners, give it a try, try it out. I'm sure it will make your life much, much easier. And obviously at the end of the day, it should make you more money. Thanks so much for your time today.

Thank you for having me, Klaus.