Maximize Your Productivity And Scale Your Success With Outsourcing — Siva Balakrishnan | Why Brands Evolve In Three Stages, How Outsourcing As Teamwork Drives Results, Why Patience Builds Outsourcing Success, How Partners Help Navigate Marketplaces (#398)

Discover how to navigate e-commerce outsourcing to streamline operations and scale your business. 

Siva Balakrishnan, founder and CEO of Vserve with over 20 years of e-commerce outsourcing experience in the US market, shares strategies for brands at different growth stages. 

Learn how the right partner can help optimize supply chain management, expand to multichannel selling, and improve profitability while navigating today's complex omnichannel marketplace.

Topics discussed in this episode: 

• How to boost EBITDA and ad returns as your brand grows. 
• What smart outsourcing looks like at each business stage. 
• How to build a strong supply chain with tech and people. 
• What shifts when moving from single-channel to omnichannel. 
• Why knowing marketplace quirks fuels multichannel growth. 
• How to stay clear and open when working with outsourcers. 
• What makes a mid-market ecom brand ideal for outsourcing. 
• How to pick between retainer and project pricing. 
• What steps to take to start outsourcing with lasting results. 

Links & Resources 

Website: https://vservesolution.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/vservesolution/posts/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siva-balakrishnan-38216b1/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vservesolution1

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
https://tinyurl.com/2satzjt7

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Transcript

[00:00:00] This episode is sponsored by hres, the All in one marketing intelligence platform, trusted by SEO professionals, content creators, and digital marketers around the world. Whether you're doing keyword research, checking back links, or analyzing competitors, HRES gives you the tools to make smarter marketing decisions.

Explore what hres can do@hres.com.[00:00:20] 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the e-Commerce Coffee Break podcast. Today we want to talk about how to navigate the complexities of e-commerce so you can focus on growth in one, a more efficient business. Joining me, the show today is Siva. He's the founder and CEO of Vserve with over 20 years [00:00:40] of experience.

Experience in e-commerce outsourcing, specifically in the US market, and with an MBA from Oklahoma State and executive training from i I a Bangor. He brings both global perspective and practical knowhow. He's also a 2020 Pioneer entrepreneurship award winner and a recognized expert in driving e-commerce growth through smart outsourcing strategies.

So let's [00:01:00] welcome to the show. Hi Siva, how are you today? Hey, thanks Claus, thanks for having me here. Excited to be, uh, talk to you. Let's dive all right into it. So e-commerce can be really tough to manage. Specifically with all the moving parts, inventory, shipping, selling on multiple platforms. What do you see as the biggest struggle that brands face when trying to keep everything running smoothly?

I. [00:01:20] Yeah, I, I, I think maybe there, there are like stages through which brands evolve. You know, the first stage, uh, that the brands kind of have to tackle is the product market fit, right? So, uh, and then in that stage it's, it's all about getting your technology right, uh, making sure you know your products is from the customer.

The customers like it, and then you're able to kind of market [00:01:40] and sell yourself effectively to the customer. So that's kind of the first stage. Uh, and then once the firm's, uh, companies get past that stage, uh, an established product market fit, then you know, the conversation usually switches to, Hey, you know, how do I, you know, optimize for, uh, for ebitda, how, how do I op, uh, optimize for, uh, you know, returns in ad [00:02:00] spend?

How do I optimize. For, uh, you know, improving profitability, uh, and, and improving sales. Uh, and then as the, as the brand matures, you know, it is all, it's all about, you know, uh, you know, x to brand extensions. How do I use the brand, um, to improve, uh, the, the mix of products that I can serve to the customer.

So, so the, these are like different conversations that, that [00:02:20] the companies have, uh, as in their, in their life cycle. Uh, and, and as you know, the, the challenges are very different in each stage. Uh, and, and for us, you know, we, we work with. Companies from all the three stages, uh, clause. And we, you know, we understand those conversations a little different.

You know, when we're starting off it, it's all about, you know, he, you [00:02:40] know, helping them get to the mar market the fastest way possible. You know, you know, running, you know, experiments, running, you know, making sure, you know, you're kind of bootstrapping, uh, the, the, uh, the, the sales effort. So, so that way, you know, we are able to kind of quickly find that market fit, uh, and then ask, ask.

As the, uh, as the value proposition [00:03:00] gets more defined as the companies, uh, you know, have that fit, then you know, the conversation's turned about, you know, how do we have the best quality resources at the best price? Um, so, you know, you know, we can get the best results, uh, uh, for them. You know, how do we get the products, uh, sh shipped in quickly?

How do we make sure, you know, they're able to improve, um, [00:03:20] you know, their customer satisfaction? So it's, it is all about that. Um, and then, and then, you know, as, as the conversation progresses, you know, we, we, we start helping them with sourcing better products, you know, getting them the right mix of, um, you know, um.

Products from across the world. Um, so we, we stay with them throughout the journey cycle as their challenges evolve and, and, [00:03:40] and e-commerce. We've seen, you know, it can be a very profitable business, you know, as long as you're able to kind of evolve through those three stages. Um, you know, with, with the right partners, with the right, uh, suppliers.

Um, um, yeah, plus that's how I see it. Yes. I think that's a very good overview about the different stages that you'd been into. And I'm a big [00:04:00] fan of outsourcing. I, I always say is you need to understand your business first and you need to do everything in your business first in the beginning, but then find somebody who's better than you and then they take over.

So when it comes to outsourcing, obviously with the different stages, and I want to touch a little bit on supply chain management. I think that's something where a lot of brands, um, struggle with. [00:04:20] Can you give me an overview on how you help with that? Yeah. Uh, supply chain is, is a big piece of, like you said, you know, probably it kind of becomes more critical as the brand evolves and grows.

Um, and, and supply chain management is, is all about, you know, establishing your vendors, you know, making sure you're, you're sourcing from the right vendors, uh, making sure your product gets. Gets to the customers [00:04:40] on time, uh, making sure your returns are handled right. Um, so a whole bunch of activities that go in, uh, to do this.

And many of this, uh, you know, there's, there's technology that goes in, uh, you know, in, in, into it enabling, uh, you know, more automation. You know, AI play plays a big role, but in spite of all of that, the [00:05:00] human in the loop is still a critical piece of the conversation and, and where we come in. Is, you know, bringing those resources along with the technology into the conversation.

So, you know, uh, uh, our customers who are the e-commerce mark, you know, um, uh, uh, companies, uh, are able to leverage on our resources, our technology, their [00:05:20] technology and really make sure that, you know, we, we bring, uh, you bring out the best for our customers. So, so that's kind of how we see it. Where, uh, where we bring in the right resource, right capabilities at the right time.

And, and right, like you rightly pointed out, it's important that you, uh, you know, work with the right partner in, [00:05:40] uh, in establishing that product market fit. And then, uh, you know, uh. Outsource the right way versus looking at outsourcing as a way to solve a problem. So that's, it's often not, not, not how it's done.

You still need to find the product market fit. You need to still, you know, make sure you have a robust business. And then outsourcing is a, is a support ecosystem [00:06:00] that we can help build. So, you know, you can improve your profitability, you can improve your margins, you can improve, uh, your time to market, you can improve, uh, your ability to serve your customers better and and so forth.

So, um, so it, it's, it's. Part of a, uh, of the mix, but it's not the, uh, the only thing, um, that, that's gonna make your business work. Plus, yes. [00:06:20] No, that makes sense. Now. A lot of brands, at some point they start selling multichannel. They start selling on Shopify, Amazon, Walmart, all the retail platforms that are out there.

And at things become tricky because then everything has to grow. So not only supply chain management, but obviously customer support has to grow and so on and so forth. So what's the biggest [00:06:40] problem you see that shifting these operations to the next level brings with it? Yeah, I, I think, I think you, you brought in a great point, um, where back when we started focusing on e-commerce about 10 years back, it, it was e-commerce in itself.

Uh, you know, was, uh, was a, uh, you know, was, was a full, full-fledged strategy. [00:07:00] Uh, now it's not anymore. So every company wants to be an omnichannel company, right? So. They wanna be selling on their own website. They wanna be selling in marketplaces, the Amazons, the Walmarts, uh, the market. So, so, so, so many, uh, uh, marketplaces.

And then they also want to have a brick and mortar strategy. 'cause they've realized that e-commerce is, is [00:07:20] about what, 30, 25, 30% of the, uh, uh, of the market. So you still have the other 75, uh, that, that you want to address. And you know, this number is. Even smaller in some of the, uh, developing countries versus the more advanced countries.

Um, so, um, so, um, so the. The conversation has really become, uh, you know, one of omnichannel. Um, so [00:07:40] now you know, we are no longer a niche, uh, company. 'cause any, if we go in and say e-commerce, everybody has an e-commerce site. Everybody has an e-commerce strategy. So, uh, it's, it's basically become mainstream.

But at the same time, it's mainstream as an omnichannel strategy where, you know, for instance, for some of our customers, we would help. Run their e-commerce, [00:08:00] uh, website, but also at the same time help them, uh, you know, take their products to Amazon, to Walmart. So we are, we are Walmart partners, official Walmart partners.

We are, we are Amazon partners. So, um, so we are able to kind of take, uh, you know, their products to the marketplaces and, and it's not rocket science. The marketplace is not rocket science, but everybody [00:08:20] has their own quirks. They have their own kind of way of doing things and marketplaces don't like it if they, if you don't exactly follow their.

Rules, which, which is very frustrating many times. So again, you know, those are areas where we are able to bring in experts who can support them, uh, who can help them navigate the nuances of the marketplace. Um, so, so, and then, [00:08:40] and then even beyond that, you know, once you get in the supply chain space, we also kind of helping them with the brick and mortar delivery as well.

Because now in the omnichannel setup, the supply chain is pretty much the same. You know, uh, some, some of this. Uh, delivery happens to the e-commerce site. Some of the, uh, delivery happens to brick and mortar site. So again, we, we have experts, resources, technology to kinda help them [00:09:00] deliver. So, so we are able to kind of help them in all these three pieces.

And now it's, it's every, every company pretty much, uh, that we work with have an omnichannel strategy. And that's why the world is moving towards, it's, uh, most of the, even the D two C brands who have had huge success in the D two C world have realized that they still need to kind of reach out and, and.

You know, become [00:09:20] omnichannel very fast. Mm-hmm. I tend to disagree that you said that Amazon is not rocket science. I think it is. And you're an Amazon partner and I think, um, you're sort of, yeah. Really under, you're not really giving it away that this is a science to work on Amazon and it's not that easy.

I agree. I, uh, it's, [00:09:40] it's more, it's, it's more understanding the rules. So, so that's kind of where I meant where, you know, you, you have to kinda have the, uh, have the patience and the, um, and the discipline to kinda do things the way Amazon wants it to, wants to do so then, and that's, that's what I meant, but I, but I agree with what you said.

Yes. And that's more so important to have an [00:10:00] outsourcing partner who knows the rules and can help with that. And I think that's a lot, um, where, where brands struggle, specifically when they come to Amazon, um, to dial with this kind of universe of rules and regulations with Amazon. And a lot of them are very, very surprised.

But when it comes to outsourcing and you help with all these stages, business owners might worry a little bit about losing [00:10:20] control. Uh, how do you make sure that communication and transparency along the way, uh, is up to speed? Yeah, I, I think, uh, yeah, great question again. Um, so, um, so the way we look at outsourcing is.

We are, uh, we are experts in what we do with it. Oftentimes, um, you know, when, when you say outsource, [00:10:40] especially in the US context, uh, is, you know, hey, you know, I have a VA in the Philippines, virtual assistant in the Philippines, or, or India. And, and, you know, I, I've just kind of hired them on, um, on Upwork or, um, you know, through the agency.

And, and then, you know, they think that's, that's outsourcing, right? So oftentimes, uh, outsourcing is not just that. It's, [00:11:00] it's all about. Making sure you bring in the best quality, uh, of expertise in that domain that you're looking for versus the general admin person who would just come in and, and do some of the really low end, uh, administrative work.

Uh, so, uh, so what I mean by that, like for example, if it's Google [00:11:20] Ads, right? So do we have. The best modest person to, you know, you might be running your strategy, but you have the best and the brightest person to actually go out and implement it. And do they have an ecosystem where they can really thrive and learn, uh, from, from, from others?

Um, so, you know, they can kind of produce the best results. Similarly for, you know, an analyst, uh, you [00:11:40] know, in, in. In supply chain or, or, you know, it could be, you know, a quarter in, um, in a, in a, in the supply chain domain. So, so there, there needs to be an ecosystem where they're learning and growing. There needs to be an ecosystem where they're supported by experts in, in that domain.

Uh, and, and just, you know, bringing in administrative assistant [00:12:00] is maybe. 5% of the outsourcing potential that, that you're targeting versus the a hundred percent that you could potentially do. Um, so, so that's kinda where we see maybe a difference between. A lot of companies who just look to get a couple of cheap resources and say, you know, hey, that's our outsourcing strategy [00:12:20] versus some of the others who have a very comprehensive approach to outsourcing.

And then the way we engage with, with companies is, you know, is truly a partnership model where. We have resources who are dedicated to the company, uh, who actually kind of live and breathe the, the company's products, uh, breathe the [00:12:40] company's, uh, culture. Uh, so, so what that enables them to do is to really become part of that company, understand it day in and day out, uh, and give you a much higher quality of results.

And remember, you know, the entire ecosystem is full of experts in this space. So they're also able to constantly learn from the others in the ecosystem. Plus the, [00:13:00] you know, understand the culture of the company, understand best practices from across, across the board. So overall, the, the company be, uh, benefits immensely by, uh, by the team.

They, they're constantly learning from, uh, from us and, and vice versa. So it's not really about, you know, having a couple of administrative assistants. It's, it's all about, you know, having a [00:13:20] true partner who invests in, in, in the, in the team members who are able to bring in best practices. And then learn and grow with, uh, with, with our customers.

So that's kind of our approach and it's really helped us, you know, we are a team of over 600 people now and, and we be constantly growing and, and it's really helped us, uh, in this approach. Uh, you [00:13:40] know, the companies see long-term benefits, so our engagements are mostly multi-year. You know, we, some of our.

Longest customers are over a decade old. They've kinda really, you know, gone through the cycles. We've gone through the, the whole e-commerce wave covid and back now to omnichannel, and we've kind of worked with them to figure all of this. So, so they really look at us as true [00:14:00] partners versus just, you know, expendable resource.

So, so it's a, it's a very holistic, fully managed offering versus, uh, maybe a, a one-off cost saving kind of engagement cost. Yeah. Let's take a moment to thank HRES for the free web analytics tool, a free privacy first analytics platform. It gives you a clear picture of your [00:14:20] website activity, doesn't use cookies, and won't weight down your pages.

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I think it's is a really mindset shift from, I just. Give something quickly a gig to, to Upwork or, I really have a partner and I see it like you, I have worked with a lot of outsourcing in my business years, and I see my outsourcing partner as part of my team. They [00:15:00] are a full-time employee or part-time employee, but they're a full part of my team when it comes to communication, when it comes to culture, and so on, so forth.

So I think that's very, very important to, to point this out. Now talk to me about. If someone is thinking about outsourcing and they're unsure to start with, what advice would you give them for the first step? [00:15:20] Um, I, yeah, I mean, I, I think the, the advantages outsourcing are very obvious, right? So this massive cost saving and, uh, and, and, you know, the ability to get access to resources very quickly.

Uh, and, and also the ability to scale up. So, for instance, you know, a typical. Mid-market company, [00:15:40] uh, in the us which is, which is our typical customer might have like 25, 30 people in their e-commerce team, versus we have 600 plus. So, so, you know, we, we, we are able to bring in scale, like if they want to grow even a hundred percent, that's like just easy for us, you know, we are able to kind of support them.

Very quickly. So, um, so, so scale is, scale is scale is a big advantage. [00:16:00] Class is a big advantage. Best practices. So, so we, we work with 40, 50 customers, so we are able to kind of bring in the best practices to the table of what, what, what everybody does. So, so there's a lot of learning, uh, uh, between, uh, between our teams.

So, and, and that then directly benefits, uh, our. Our customers as well. So these are [00:16:20] kind of some of the obvious benefits. But, but as you know, it's oftentimes, and you would, you would hear horror stories about, Hey, you know, how I tried outsourcing, it failed, uh, you know, my, uh, my administrative assistant couldn't understand English.

Or, you know, he, he, you know, he or she wouldn't, wouldn't kind of. Gimme the quality of work that I thought they [00:16:40] would. So, so these are kind of some of the repetitive themes I hear, uh, from companies who kind of fail, uh, in that effort of, of bringing in the right resources. And, and, and what I, what I really tell them is, Hey, you know, you gotta do this right?

And what I mean by that is. Number one, you have to have a, [00:17:00] a clear process defined for, uh, for your partner. If, if, if you, if you don't know what, where you want to go, you know, the partner doesn't know where you want to go. And, and if you, if you get mad at the partner for not knowing where you want to go, you know, maybe he, you the, the partner.

Will not run the business for you. So it's not a substitute for running, [00:17:20] running a business. So, so that's number one. So you need to know where you want to go and what, what the path is. And then we, we often are able to work collaboratively to improve the output. We are able to improve the results, but we can't kind of find you the path you have to be able to tell us where you want to go.

So, so that's, that's number one. A lot of companies just assume that, hey, you know. I, I got this company [00:17:40] and they're gonna run my businesses. So that, that doesn't happen. It's, it's, it definitely, uh, uh, you know, it is hard to, um, hard to kind of, um, uh, recover from that mindset. So that's important. The, the second is I.

You know, we, you have to treat your, um, you know, your, your partner as a true partner and, and help them understand [00:18:00] the context. Help them give the bigger picture of the business. Help their team members understand where they, where they're going, versus trying to say, Hey, you know, here's spreadsheet. Here's the data that needs to be filled.

Here's the analysis and then give it back to me. We are understanding, you know, why we are doing it. What. What's the end result? What, what kind of, what we going to, uh, you know, do with that [00:18:20] result, uh, as, as a next step. So this context is very important and in true partnership, you know, this context really helps our teams and their teams to kind of really put their heads together and come up with the best results versus a siloed approach by saying, Hey, no, here are the three things that somebody else would do.

And then it'd come back and then we would do it. Oftentimes those kinda engagements are much harder, [00:18:40] um, to give that. You know, uh, improved benefit that, that, you know, true outsourcing partnership, uh, can, can give. And then the third is you have to understand that this team is potentially working, uh, several hundred 7,000 miles away from you.

There's. There's usually, you know, [00:19:00] a cultural difference. So it, it's usually not like a perfect fit day one. There's a, there's a process just like any, any partner that you would work with. There's a process to learn from each other, uh, you know, make sure we understand each other, uh, that, uh, and, and, and, and are, and are kind of shared goals.

Um, and then once that happens. [00:19:20] Then it's, then it's, you know, a benefit that kind of recurs over months and over years. But you need to have that little bit of patience for the first few weeks and, and, and maybe a couple of months to kind of help with the, with the learning, the training to make sure, you know, everybody kind of comes together as one team and [00:19:40] oftentimes they see companies get frustrated, uh, especially middle management and, and junior.

Uh, management, you know, they, they probably don't have the buy-in as well as say that the, the, the owner or the, or the senior management, and then it, then it kind of gets hard for us to kind of find that fit. So usually it helps if the. [00:20:00] If the owner or senior management kinda would, would get involved in the early stages to make sure that the, uh, that there's strong alignment between everybody.

So those are some of the things that we have seen, um, across that, that kinda maybe, uh, are good, uh, initial best practices that you could put in place. Um, you know, when you start off an engagement and then there's a good chance for success. Yes. [00:20:20] I think that was a perfect masterclass on how to outsource, and I totally agree with you.

You need to be patient, you need to be fair, and you need to give your partner a chance to come up to speed with your company, with your messaging and all of that. And then you have a long-term partner. Um, I've seen it in my professional life as well that people are just not patient and then things just go down the drain.

[00:20:40] So for our listeners, listen to this twice. This is a masterclass on how to approach outsourcing. Now you touched. Uh, your customers tell me who's your perfect customer? Sure. Um, so, um, our, um, our focus is, like I said, the mid-market in the, in the us. Um, so, uh, so we typically work very [00:21:00] well, uh, with B2B customers and in the, uh, in the industrial distribution space, uh, in the, uh, in the hardware and home improvement space.

So those are, those are some of our ideal customers. A mid-market is anywhere between say, 10 20 million to about a hundred, 150 million. So that's kind of our size. Uh, but having said that. [00:21:20] Um, we also work with a number of startups because, you know, as a company we've realized, uh, that a lot of these startups do grow into that 10, $20 million companies very quickly.

And we've also been fortunate to, you know, have some of those customers with us even today, that we started with them with, uh, you know, just a few thousand dollars of, uh, you know, uh, [00:21:40] engagement, uh, as we started. So, so we're very cognizant of the fact that, you know, today's startups would be, uh, you know, our ideal customers in, in the next.

You know, few months and years. Uh, so we, we do work with a number of them as long as. It's a shared understanding of what success is. Uh, you know, we are very flexible, you know, we, we, in terms of revenue [00:22:00] headcount, so we were able to kind of really make sure we, uh, we go out a way to, you know, support them in, in their, in their growth process.

So, so we bootstrap, we started off with a couple of people and now, you know, we, we are here. So we understand that journey as a, as a, as a startup that grew, uh, uh, that grew as well. So we are very, uh, supportive. Uh, and, and, uh. [00:22:20] And we really look at them as, uh, as, as our partners, uh, in, in, in, in their growth as well.

Mm-hmm. Now, listeners wanna hear about your pricing structure. How does that work? Yeah. Um, so we have multiple pricing formats. Uh, again, you know, we are, we are bringing in resources to the table, but also understand that automation is important for [00:22:40] success. Um, so, uh, so we, we are automation first, um, resources.

So, so our, our resources would come in, but also with, uh, strategy to automate what you're doing and then mm-hmm. You know, be that human in the loop. Um, so, so usually, uh, it's a co Our pricing is either a retainer pricing. Uh, which [00:23:00] is again, you know, a dedicated team, long-term engagement, uh, but at the same time delivering results, uh, on pre-agreed, uh, timeframe.

So if it could be monthly, weekly, quarterly, whatever that is, uh, we take responsibility for results, uh, and then we ensure we deliver. But, but the engagement is more, uh, [00:23:20] fixed resource engagement. 'cause then, you know, the co the companies feel that that gives them a chance, um, for the, for the people to kinda understand the culture, become a part of the team.

Um, so, so, you know, so that's, that's one way to do it, been very successful. A lot of our long-term engagements go that route because they get that little bit of visibility and control over the teams, the [00:23:40] resources, the technology. But at the same time, we still take responsibility for results. So, so it's, it's a, it's a good mix of, of, uh, of control.

Versus, you know, also having accountability. So, so that's, uh, that's one model. The other model is more project based, uh, which is, you know, we, the, the scope is defined. Hey, you know, it's, it's a build [00:24:00] out and here's, here's what I need at the end of the build out, or it's an upgrade and here's what I need at the end of the upgrade.

And, and we, we, we would do a, uh, a fixed bid and, um, and, and the customers would approve it. So, so it's, we, we are flexible on both models. Um, but, but customers who. Who look at a little bit more long term, engage with [00:24:20] us more on the, on the fixed, uh, fixed contracts versus project based. Mm-hmm. But I like that you basically with them on all the stages in a business and that you're not only a outsource partner, but you also bring a lot of knowhow experience on board.

So it's far more, and obviously that's a, a massive step to grow a brand, is [00:24:40] to have a partner who actually can help you and point you in the right direction there. Now, Siva, before our coffee break comes to end today, is there anything you wanna share with our listeners that we haven't covered yet? No, I, I, uh, Klaus, thanks.

Thanks for some of those insightful questions. Really appreciate it. Uh, enjoy, enjoyed our conversation. Uh, I think, uh, you know, overall looking back at what's, [00:25:00] what's really worked for our customers, um, I. Just to summarize, I think it's, if you wanna work with a true, uh, outsourcing partner, it's all about, you know, trusting them and treating them as true partners.

Uh, you know, have a little bit of patience. So, you know, the, the, the culture of the two companies and the two teams, uh, blend in together. Uh, and then, you know, once you're able to kind of. [00:25:20] You know, get to get past that stage. You know, we've proven over and over again, over several, um, you know, a hundred companies that there's massive benefits that, uh, any e-commerce player can, uh, can get by having that true engagement.

So that's kind of how I see it. Yes. Yeah, no, totally agree. And I would summarize and then repeat myself. I'm a [00:25:40] big fan of outsourcing. I've done it many, many times. And if you're a patient, I really wanna highlight this here, you will see good results. Where can people go and find more out about you guys? I.

Um, our website is verv solution.com. Please visit our website. We are on LinkedIn, we are on social media. Um, happy to, um, you know, have, [00:26:00] have a conversation if you, if you'd wanna reach out to me as well. My email is siva@vervsolution.com. Please feel free to reach out to me and we'll jump into a call.

Perfect. I will put the links in the show notes as always. Then you just one click away. Siva, thanks so much for your time today. I hope a lot of people will reach out to you and I'm sure they will get see good results. Thanks so much for your time today. Alright, thank you [00:26:20] so much for your time. Close.

Bye-bye. Great talking to you. Thanks again to hres and hres Web Analytics for supporting the show. If you're looking for a clean, fast, and privacy focused analytics tool, try it for free at hres.com/awt. That's A-H-R-E-F s.com/awt. You will also find [00:26:40] the link in the show notes.

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