Beyond The Basics: 3 Unique Email Marketing Tactics That Work — Gavin Hewitson | How Small Tweaks Grow Revenue, How Popups And Flyouts Grow Signups And Sales, Why Showing Discounts On-site Converts Better, What KPI's To Set When Hiring An Agency (#394)

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In this episode, email marketing expert Gavin Hewitson reveals how to boost conversions by treating customers and non-customers differently in your email campaigns.

Learn why reiterating offers to non-customers is crucial for getting that difficult first purchase, and why most brands miss this simple yet powerful segmentation strategy.

Gavin shares his expertise on creating effective welcome flows, optimizing popup forms, and building email strategies that drive real results through personalized customer journeys.
 
Get Access to 70 Fully Editable Email Templates for FREE: https://in-box.co.nz/newsletter/

Topics discussed in this episode: 

• Why treating all subscribers the same hurts conversions
• What customer vs. non-customer segments reveal about revenue
• How repeating signup offers speeds up first purchases
• What a high-performing welcome series looks like
• How popups and flyouts boost both signups and sales
• Why showing the discount code on-site works better
• What zero-party data unlocks for personalization
• How storytelling + segmentation drive deeper engagement
• Key KPIs to set when hiring an agency (and revenue-share red flags)
• How small flow tweaks lead to long-term revenue growth

Links & Resources 

Website: https://in-box.co.nz/
70 Fully Editable Email Templates for FREE: https://in-box.co.nz/newsletter/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavin-hewitson-bb561685/
X/Twitter: https://x.com/Klaviyodeepdive
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gavinhewitsonsemail

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
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Transcript

[00:00:00] This episode is sponsored by Brevo. Time to take your marketing to the next level. Brevo is the all-in-one marketing platform that helps you connect with customers through email, SMS, WhatsApp and automation, all from one easy to use platform. Keep your customer data organized, personalize every message and drive real engagement effortlessly.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of e-Commerce Coffee Break Podcast. In today's episode, we want to talk about three [00:00:40] email strategies that you have never heard of. So what that is, we will find out. And joining me for this is Gavin Hewitson is an email marketing expert who turns casual shoppers into loyal customers.

He creates campaigns that really get results by blending storytelling with smart targeting. So let's welcom him to the show. Hi Gavin. How are you today? Good, good. Thanks for having me. Email marketing one of my [00:01:00] favorite topics because it does so much to businesses and there's so much storytelling in there, and there's so much creativity in there when to dive into this.

First question, as always is what's the biggest mistake you see that most brands make with email marketing? Yeah, it's, it's a great question. So nice, nice to meet you. Um, I run an email in SMS marketing [00:01:20] agency, focusing purely on email, uh, and SMS. And you know, email is one of those things that I think out of everything when it comes to marketing is probably one of the most misunderstood.

Topics, uh, outside of Facebook ads, Twitter, Google, all that stuff, email is a hundred percent slept on. I think, you know, one of the biggest things that I see people slip [00:01:40] up on when it comes to email marketing is treating. Your database exactly the same regardless of, you know, how they've interacted with your business in the past.

And, you know, this kind of goes into one of my main points that I want to wanna talk about today, and that's the difference between customers and non-customers. It's one of the easiest splits you can [00:02:00] make across every single automation, every single campaign, every single popup form that you have, but.

One of the biggest slip ups is, is businesses, you know, they'll have one campaign and they'll send that exact Sam ca Sam campaign to their either entire database or engaged [00:02:20] database, regardless of the customer's purchasing behavior in the past. And you know, when it comes to email marketing, the most important thing you can really focus on is the subscription to conversion rate.

How many subscribers? You can turn into first time customers and then after [00:02:40] that it's your retention rate. And so one of the easiest ways you know, you can kind of move the needle and influence the subscription to conversion rate, which is somebody subscribing on your pop-up form or subscribing to email marketing and then turning into a first time customer is to reiterate offers throughout every single [00:03:00] message.

A non-customer gets from both a flow, which is automation and a campaign perspective. You know, this, this, one of the easiest ways to, to really do this is let's say you have a, you know, campaign content calendar, right? And in that campaign content calendar, you have, let's say 10 campaigns for a given [00:03:20] month.

And let's say all of those campaigns are educational in nature, right? Most businesses will just say, Hey, you know, at the very least or at the most, what we're gonna do right now is segment our database by who's engaged with our email marketing. And by engaged that might mean opened or clicked or placed an order in the last 90 days.

[00:03:40] And we did this recently with, with one of our clients. It was really interesting where we did that, but then we also took that engage segment and split it. Or split it up by who had placed an order and who had not. We sent those two segments, the exact same content calendar, right? The exact same content calendar, same [00:04:00] educational emails.

The only difference was for those who'd never placed an order before, in every single one of those emails, we wove in. The offer that was provided in the welcome series, and we knew for a fact that those people hadn't actually used that incentive yet because they were in the engaged non purchaser segment.[00:04:20] 

And you know, the reality is. If you have an offer, getting that first purchase across the line is one of the hardest things you can actually do. And reiterating that offer is one of the easiest ways to get that first purchase across the line. What we found with this client, when we sent this campaign and we had this, uh, you know, this splitting up 80% of the revenue from email [00:04:40] marketing, and this is probably gonna be consistent across most brands, 80% of your email marketing revenue from a campaign perspective is gonna come.

From people who've already placed an order. Once 20% comes from those who've never placed an order before. So it's so important to get that first purchase across the line. And we do that by reiterating the [00:05:00] offer that we gave them on our signup forms in our welcome series. In those campaigns, it's one of the easiest splits that everyone seems to slip up on.

It's not. Trying as best as you can to get that first purchase across the line. Now some people may be listening to this and being like, oh my God, you know, I don't really wanna give away, you know, margin on, on my, you know, my first purchase. And you know, you kind [00:05:20] of, honestly, like the reality is you kind of have to, nowadays, you know, when people with the online shopping experience usually goes something like this, they go onto your website.

They find a product, then they go onto Amazon to see if they can find it cheaper, and if they can, they buy it on Amazon. If you can keep people in your ecosystem and then you don't even get their email address if they buy it on Amazon, if you can keep people in your [00:05:40] ecosystem by getting that first purchase, by giving them the incentive, you're gonna make up for any loss in that initial margin on the second and third and fourth purchase, which played out.

When we saw that 80% of the revenue was coming from that existing customer database, people who had already placed an order once. So honestly, it's, it's [00:06:00] personalization, but it's broad personalization that people slip up on. And by personalization, I mean just splitting the audience by purchasing behavior in the past.

Oh my God. There was so many golden nuggets in there, which it just was a very quick masterclass. So we are touching on deliverability at 90 days. You sort of filter them out. Very, very important. Then obviously the [00:06:20] welcome flow, and I want to touch on the welcome flow. I think a lot of merchants out there, they're too scared to really create a in depth.

Welcome flow and coming from a popup, also very, very important. Talk me through the process of signing up, going through the welcome flow in the first place. So where do you collect email addresses, and then how long [00:06:40] should the welcome flow be? Sure. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna touch on a few little things here.

The process of somebody going into your welcome flow typically happens from two sources. The first one is through some sort of popup on your website, right? Typical popups can be displayed, and I'll dive into this a little bit more when I talk about more about [00:07:00] popups. But you know, a popup after eight seconds and then a fly out after 45 seconds.

So I'll explain that in a little bit more depth later. But. Somebody goes onto your website, they see an offer 10 to 15 to 20% off. They're like, Hey, I want that. They hit enter. They put their email address. Really important note, make sure you include your discount code on the popup form. [00:07:20] Do not force somebody to leave your website to find the coupon code, to get distracted to then give you money.

Doesn't make any sense now. In that welcome series, that's the first source of traffic, people coming from the popups. The other source of traffic is gonna be from people subscribing, uh, at checkout, and [00:07:40] not finishing an order. The goal of the welcome series. Is to get that first purchase across the line. A lot of people say it's to educate about the brand, it's to tell your story.

What they're really saying is get that first purchase across the line. Because if you're trying to educate a brand, what you're actually trying to do is convince somebody to spend money with [00:08:00] you. Now, how do you get that first purchase across the line? In the welcome series, first email that you send in that welcome series should come out immediately after somebody signs up.

Okay? Now, obviously add a filter. At the top of your welcome series to exclude people if they've placed an order before, because there's no point in trying to [00:08:20] convince somebody to place order if they've already placed their first order. Say things like, Hey, here's 10%, 15% off your first order, and they've already placed the order.

It doesn't make any sense, but in the first email, give them the incentive that you promised them in the signup form, right? Hey, hey, here's 10, 15, 20% off. Now if they subscribe to checkout, they're probably nott even gonna know about this discount, right? Mm-hmm. [00:08:40] Reiterate it nonetheless. Header image super clear.

Here's 15, 20% off. Make that your primary focus. Now, my approach to welcome series is a little bit different when it comes to email marketing on average, right? Those who subscribe for the discount code and who place an order, [00:09:00] 75% of people, if not more, are gonna place that order. If they do ever place an order in the first 72 hours.

Receiving that discount code. Okay. Now what that tells me is that when somebody's in, uh, buying behavior, the brand that's gonna win that [00:09:20] individual over is the brand that has, yes, obviously the best product, but also the brand who reiterates their offer the most to the person in the buying window. So I typically have a second email after that first email that comes 12 hours after.

12 hours that reiterates the [00:09:40] discount code. Okay? That's all it does. Perhaps you can include some bestseller stuff, but reiterates the discount code. I'm gonna try and send as many emails as I possibly can without being just overly obnoxious. I'm not gonna be sending an email every hour, but I'm gonna try and send as many emails as I can within that first 72 hour [00:10:00] window to get that purchase across the line.

Second email, reiterate the offer. Third email. You can time this after either a day or two days at this point, 'cause you're getting close. Now to that 72 hour window is highlighting bestsellers once again and potentially weaving in some guarantees, free shipping stuff. Only [00:10:20] after that am I focusing on brand story, uh, you know, connection to the founders.

And when I talk about brand, I don't actually try and. Develop a connection with the brand per se. I try and develop a connection with the people behind the brand for businesses doing, at least in my experience, you know, under $50 [00:10:40] million in revenue a year. They should be leaning a lot more into that. Hi, my name's John.

This is my wife Julie. We've created a business. It's so nice to have you supporting us. People care about people at that point, and they start to care about the brand as a whole. When you get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, right? Like nobody really cares about. [00:11:00] The, you know, the CCEO of JP Morgan when they're deciding whether or not they're gonna trust the bank, right?

It has a big enough of a reputation to rely on that. When you're smaller, it's the people to people connection. Then you start reiterating those messages in the welcome series. Now, in terms of your question, like how long should a welcome series be? I don't actually have so much of a set rule on this. One [00:11:20] cool trick I've done in the past for welcome series.

Is I have my initial welcome series, which can be anywhere between four to five to six emails long, reiterating the offer, highlighting best sellers and guarantees forming connection with the brand. And one cool thing you can actually do is go into your historical campaigns, find the [00:11:40] campaigns that have gotten the best engagement, that are not sales focused.

Okay. And not. Time sensitive. So if you have like an email that was education on Product X that got really good open rates and click rates, take that email. Build it into the welcome series after a certain [00:12:00] time delay, you know, probably after four or five days because you're getting into this cadence now of people where if they haven't purchased, the likelihood of them purchasing gradually decreases, and you just wanna put them in a continuous nurture sequence.

But take your evergreen content from a campaign perspective, repurpose it, make sure it doesn't go to waste, and build it into your welcome series and just [00:12:20] ensure that you update that email. With the offer that you've given in the welcome series, this gives you a great opportunity to essentially recycle content, save money, and time on having to create new campaigns and ensure that any new people are on a consistent funnel that you know gets high engagement going forward.[00:12:40] 

And now a quick break to thank the sponsors of today's episode. Are you looking to take your business marketing to the next level? Meet bvo, the All-in-one marketing and CRM platform designed to help you connect with customers, drive engagement, and grow your business. With Brevo, you can manage all your customer interactions in one place.

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That's a very, very good example. And specifically for our listeners who always I, I have no idea what to put into an email. This is a perfect [00:13:40] email flow and that gives you also an idea where you can get additional content for your emails. So very well done. Now let's dive into popup forms. You mentioned in the beginning that you.

Segmenting the visitors, your website visitors, your store visitors with popup forms, how does that work and how does that go into email automation? Yeah, great, great question. Pop popup [00:14:00] forms are one of the most underutilized tools with email marketing that that I see out there in the whole suite of tools that email marketing has.

Popups are. First and foremost, a tool to get a first purchase across the line. Second to that, it's getting the email subscription. It's not the other way around. A lot of people think it's the other way [00:14:20] around. Let me get their email first, and then the, the discount code, how I create pop-up forms is the first thing I do is I create a pop-up that's designed as a popup that clearly highlights the offer.

Only asks for their email address, doesn't ask for their first name, doesn't ask for what they're interested in. Does not ask for [00:14:40] SMS and then. Displays after eight seconds. Once they enter their email address, you have an option here. You can either immediately display them the discount code, make sure you display the discount code on the popup.

Also, make sure you have a desktop and a mobile version of each popup. Okay? So you don't want to have two people [00:15:00] looking at the same popup, uh, if they're on a phone or if they're on a desktop device. Split. The, uh, audience according to that. Now, when it comes to the popup, you can have the second step be the success message.

Here's your discount code, or you can have a second step that says, Hey, what are you interested in? Tell us what you like. Why [00:15:20] are you shopping with us? This is called zero party data Collection, and you can take this data here. And create segments down the road, or even splits within your welcome series to send people down curated paths that speak specifically to their issues.

A classic example for a supplement brand would be, Hey, why are you shopping with us? I'm trying to sleep [00:15:40] better. I'm trying to improve my running. Two different issues, two very different emails. You should send somebody to convince 'em to buy. Depending on what they select. You send them down a different path in the welcome series, or you send them different campaigns in the future.

Now. When it comes to the public form, then you have that as an eight second delay. Then you want to duplicate [00:16:00] that popup form, okay? Mm-hmm. And you want to have it set as a fly out. After 45 seconds, and you wanna show this to people who haven't subscribed to email marketing yet, it's essentially another opportunity to reiterate your offer to your subscribers who have closed the eight second popup form.[00:16:20] 

It seems kind of crazy, right? Because a lot of people think, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna create a popup forum. I'll have it show up once. If they close it, they never see my welcome offer again. That doesn't make any sense. We should give people another opportunity, especially. After 45 seconds, which means they've had a bit more familiarity with the brand to see that offer and convince and get that [00:16:40] really subscription to conversion rate even higher.

And what these forms do is they actually increase the onsite conversion rates. Now, one of the things a lot of email marketers do is they force people to go into their email to get the discount code, which is. A stupid idea because when it comes to email marketing, yes. Forcing [00:17:00] somebody on the popup say like at the final step, go to your email to see your coupon code.

That makes us email marketers look really good because it increases our attributed revenue because they have to interact with an email. To then place an order that makes us look amazing. But what it does is it costs the business [00:17:20] sales because somebody leaves their website, goes into their inbox, drops off.

It doesn't make any sense. Make it as easy as possible for somebody to give you money. Those are the fly out in the popup forms. Popup after eight seconds, fly out after 45 seconds. Okay? Then what you can do is you can create another popup [00:17:40] form. Targets a very specific segment of subscribers. Those who've subscribed to email marketing who subscribed more than three days ago and have not placed an order, you can create another flyout form that displays the discount code to those people.

Doesn't ask for their email address, doesn't ask for SMS, it just says, [00:18:00] Hey, here's your discount code. Don't forget to use it. What this does is it increases your onsite conversion rates again, and so using popups is a great way, yeah, to grow your list, but also really helps dial in the onsite conversion rate.

Gavin, that was a really good overview about how to facilitate popups in your marketing strategy. Now, [00:18:20] some listeners might not have the marketing or technical background or skills or just simply lack the time to implement this themselves. How do you help your customers, or what would you recommend they should do to get a proper email marketing set up?

Yeah, so great question. And you know, what you need is gonna vary according to the [00:18:40] size of your business. So, you know, apart from the stuff that I've already mentioned previously, you know, if you're a brand doing under really 30 to $40,000 a month in revenue, getting the fundamentals set up, so those basic automations, getting a really simple welcome series, really simple, abandoned car browse, abandoned, and just having that stuff set up is gonna [00:19:00] put you ahead of pretty much 95% of the market now.

How you actually do that, um, is pretty straightforward. I think actually within the show notes to this, I'll give you guys a document that outlines the exact flows that you can literally copy and paste into your own business, and that'll help you a lot. Now, if you're, if you're a larger business and you don't have a whole lot of time on your hands, IE [00:19:20] you're doing over $40,000 a month, you know the incremental gains that you can get from having an expert on board really helps.

Play out in the long run. Now what do I mean by that? So if you're an e-commerce business, you're doing $40,000 a month. Uh, if you can increase the conversion rate, let's say, of one email or one flow [00:19:40] by, you know, 10%. In the immediate term, it's gonna have a small impact. But if you're building an automation in the long term, that automation, once it's built, is gonna have benefits that compound really for up to two to three years in the future.

And so small adjustments that someone, you know, like myself can bring to the table and that small little elements of expertise [00:20:00] once done initially will have benefits that compound over the long term, uh, in a way that. You know, for a smaller business, it's not really going to warrant bringing someone on like myself now.

So for example, if, if, if I can help get your abandoned cart, increase the conversion rates by 10%, if you're doing like $5,000 a month on your e-commerce [00:20:20] store, right? It's not worth it, right? It's not worth hiring someone like myself. Get those fundamentals set up, get the basics sort of set up. But if you're bigger, it definitely plays, plays a much bigger part if you're really trying to do this on a shoestring budget when it comes to the campaigns.

So flows are one part of email marketing, right? As our signup forms. Once you get the flows done, they're usually gonna last you for a long time. [00:20:40] Campaigns, if you're once again on that under 40 K mark, high $40,000 mark, I really recommend just putting together some campaigns for yourself. One campaign a week is gonna really do a lot for you.

Just send out an educational email, try and tie a connection between the people behind the [00:21:00] brand rather than the brand itself, and just have that value driven. Personalized human touch email come out on like a weekly basis. People are gonna resonate more with the people behind the brand rather than the brand, more so rather than the brand itself.

Right now, if you're a bigger business, it starts. Paying off to [00:21:20] have actually have some solid strategy behind what you do. So segmentation to different segments, splitting your audience up based off a purchase behavior and really crunching the numbers a little bit because the in incremental gains that you're gonna get, they, they are worth the investment in somebody that can have that, those skillsets.

Now I see that there's a synergy effect in there. [00:21:40] That's the more data obviously you have, the more you can play around with it, the more segments you can set up. And I also think if you are a new brand and you're fresh and you're starting, um, you might be just more motivated or have more ideas in mind that you want to test bigger brands and that, that's my gut feeling.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Sometimes run into the risk that they don't see the forest because of the [00:22:00] trees. They sort of need a fresh set of ice to look into their campaigns, um, to really optimize. Um, and get new impact, new, new input from outside to make it really work. Now, who's your perfect customer?

What kind of industries on these two you work most with? Yeah, so I work great with, you know, e-commerce businesses that are doing over [00:22:20] $40,000 a month in revenue when it comes to that active management side of things. So jumping into their accounts, figuring out what campaigns can be implemented, how we can improve things across the entire account when it comes to the niche specifically.

Email marketing, there are nuances to every single niche, right? And the big nuances come from figuring out how to time flows from like a repurchasing [00:22:40] behavior perspective. IE, you know, it's time for us to cross sell product X based off of their purchase for product Y because the average use time for that product.

Takes 20 days, and that's gonna vary from industry to industry. But you know, the, I've worked with over, you know, coming at this point now, it's been about five years, I've worked with over three, 300 businesses across a [00:23:00] range, a range of niche niches. I think the companies that I work really, really well, or that email marketing rather, works really, really well with your classic health wellness, beauty supplement brands.

We work with a lot of furniture and household brands as well, which is quite interesting as of late. And a lot of food brands too. The, the great thing about these, you know, wellness [00:23:20] brands or, or beauty brands or food brands, and sometimes, you know, home, home good brands is the element of adding subscription, subscription opportunities into both your product offerings, but also into your marketing strategy too.

And, you know, retention becomes really important at that point when you do have a subscription model kind of built in because mm-hmm. The education [00:23:40] around continued use, the importance of continued use of products, uh, really. Gets emphasized a lot, uh, when it comes to those types of niches and verticals.

I think we can do a separate episode only about subscriptions. 'cause it's, it's such a good topic. Um, and there's so much potential in subscription businesses, but we leave this for another time. Could you share some success stories or [00:24:00] case studies of business that you have worked with? You don't need to name the brand and what kind of success they saw.

Yeah, so I think the biggest measure for success when it comes to email marketing, there's a few, A lot of people talk about open rates and click rates, right? But. Really it doesn't, you can segment your audience however you want, and I can get open rates of [00:24:20] 90% if I just segment your audience by the most 10 recent customers, right?

And I send to a very, very narrow segment of people. The real success of you marketing is the subscription to conversion rate. How many people you can take from subscriber. Into first time customer and the way that we do that and how I approach that, as I mentioned before, creating splits across every single flow based off of the purchase behavior, [00:24:40] creating pop-up forms that reiterate offers and talk to people differently based off of that purchasing behavior and creating campaigns that talk to people differently.

I. Based off of that purchasing behavior again, right? So splitting up the audiences and you know, when it comes to that, I mean, we've seen big increases, like I think retention rates usually across all of our clients are sitting around increasing from when we started around about 50%. [00:25:00] So retention rate, how many people you turn from, first time customer into second time customer, comparing that to the previous time.

Uh, and obviously retention extends from first to second. It can go to third, to fourth to fifth. All that stuff. You know, there's a bunch of case studies, uh, on my website, which I'm sure you guys can see in the show notes, but, you know, I think the biggest impacts we've had are [00:25:20] making sure that we're taking an existing database.

I. And having different conversations with different people with different campaigns, you know, and I mean, I can check a bunch of numbers out, you know, where it's like, hey, we're increasing email marketing attributed revenue by 50, 60%. But the reality is, I think the success metrics, yeah, there's a bunch of numbers, but the real thing is the success comes in the [00:25:40] fundamentals where it's how, mm-hmm.

How are you actually approaching email differently from what the previous company was doing? And you know, once again, check out the YouTube and the case studies on the website, because we've got a bunch of stuff up there. Yeah, we'll definitely put the links in the show notes. If somebody comes to you, what's a typical onboarding process?

How does it look like? Yeah, great. Great question. So, [00:26:00] you know, a lot of people come to us with, I. There's two types of people who come to us. One, they have zero email marketing or two they've been doing email marketing and they want some improvements for those who have zero email marketing. Step number one is figuring out the fundamentals of the business and actually figuring out the tone of voice and the look and feel for the emails that we're gonna be putting together.

Mm-hmm. So really the first [00:26:20] two days is us diving deep into the business, figuring out the styles that the person likes, and we have like a media library of over. 639 different emails that we can model emails off of. So we send that over, Hey, select a three that you like. We'll model your own emails off of that.

And then, you know, it's about journey mapping. So if you don't have any email marketing, odds are you need that [00:26:40] baseline, the flows, the automations to support pretty much the customer journey at every point. We're gonna journey map that together. So if, if a client was like, Gavin, we wanna do this, we jump on a call.

We would go through that journey mapping process of, hey, somebody places an order. When are they gonna place a second order? Okay, that's gonna trigger this email, this email, this email. Let's [00:27:00] map out exactly what I. The customer journey is gonna look like at every single point of their life cycle, from first interaction with your business, all the way to, Hey, they haven't opened an email in the last 180 days.

How do we treat that conversation there? Now for companies who already have email marketing, and this is usually your businesses that are doing that over 40 [00:27:20] KA month, mark, uh, you know, the first port of call is for us to actually take a look at the account, right? Mm-hmm. Flows, the fundamentals, making sure those are set up properly, and nine times outta 10.

A lot of agencies don't really know what they're doing. There's a lot of jack of all trade agencies out there where like we're a marketing agency and they slap email on and they don't actually [00:27:40] understand the the, the basics. And so I. You know, we're gonna go in there and see what's working, what's not, and actually apply best practice.

Probably do a similar journey mapping session as well. So mapping out, this is what your current flows are telling us, this is how we should restructure them. And then it's jumping into the campaigns too, seeing how the deliverability is currently looking and seeing what campaigns are resonating historically and [00:28:00] how we can implement that going forward with an ongoing content calendar.

Right. Because a lot of the times the content calendar from last year is gonna have changed going into the next year or this year. So we go ahead and take those learnings from the previous years. Implement that with a new flare going forward. Mm-hmm. Now, I like the white glove approach there, and I'm doing email marketing [00:28:20] for 25 years, and I still believe email marketing is one of the strongest pillars or strongest tools you have in the toolbox as a marketer, and that will not go away now with this approach that you have.

And I like that this is very personalized. What's your pricing structure? Yeah, so we just did a bunch of reworking on a lot of our pricing. But you know, if you're going for the active campaign [00:28:40] management, so us taking full charge of your campaigns, where it's scripting, design, building, reporting, segmenting, all that stuff, you're looking at about $2,000 per month.

Then if you're doing the flow rebuilds. So getting all those core automations done. And the great thing about this is once it's done, it's done. There's no ongoing fees on my end. This is gonna really last you the way that I build them, it's gonna [00:29:00] last you. Mm-hmm. Assuming you don't have a massive brand or rebrand that happens anywhere from three to four years.

Right. Uh, now obviously if you introduce a bunch of new SKUs, you know there's adjustments that need to be made there. But depending on how many flows you're after, you're looking at anywhere between four to $5,000. And for an individual automation, you know, we just charge a one-off. Fee of 1000. Uh, [00:29:20] and that includes the scripting, the design, and custom journeys for your business.

It's not just cut and paste, right? Like we're actually looking at your business and creating automations specifically for your customer lifecycle rather than a generic customer lifecycle that we assume this person's gonna do this, this, this, this, this. Right? I think there's [00:29:40] money very well spent and I think still it's very affordable for what you get.

Um, it's customized, it's fitted or tailor made for your business, and as you said, it will last you for a very, very long time, which is I think that's great value for money there. Before we come to the end of our coffee break today, is there anything that you wanna share with our business that we haven't covered yet?

I think [00:30:00] big thing I wanna push is, is my YouTube channel and my newsletter. Now, I'm gonna give you guys some resources, uh, after this podcast that's gonna highlight designs, automations. But check out the YouTube because I put a bunch of stuff. Pretty much my whole philosophy is, you know, information for free.

And then implementation. Implementation for a fee so you can learn. Everything that I know [00:30:20] for free out there. And if you have the time, do it yourself and if you trust yourself, do it yourself. But if you're looking to save time and if you're looking for, uh, real good attention to detail, that's where I kind of come in.

Um, you know, I think one thing I do want to say with, with email marketing, if people are, uh, looking at hiring other agencies or looking to actually bring on [00:30:40] another professional. Make sure you have very solid KPIs that actually impacts the business. And don't let an agency try and sell you. At least for me, I'm not a big fan of revenue share deals, especially when it comes to email marketing, because attributed revenue with Klaviyo is not the same as actual revenue generated.[00:31:00] 

Mm-hmm. And if you recall when I talked about the signup form stuff, one of simple. Thing that an agency can do that can really skew the numbers that actually affects the business, but actually benefits the agency is not applying a coupon code at the end of the uh, signup form process right now that forces them into the welcome series, which increases attributed attributable revenue, which makes the agency look a hell [00:31:20] of a lot better and also increases their commission because they're getting a revenue share.

But it doesn't actually help the business. In fact, it actually hurts the business. So I think just be skeptical of the deals that get flown out and thrown around out there and, uh, you know, make sure that the work that the agency does for you when it comes to email doesn't just benefit [00:31:40] email as a medium, but benefits the entire business and make sure there's not like a disconnect there.

Very wise words. Yeah. When it comes to agencies, you need to do your homework and find a partner that you really can work with and a partner that you can trust. Where can people try to reach you directly, Gavin? Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, um, we'll have links [00:32:00] to that, but if you just Google inbox, email marketing inbox, email marketing, we should come up and then just go ahead and Google my name on YouTube, Gavin Hewitson, and I'll come up there too.

And, uh, I'm super active on YouTube, Twitter, and LinkedIn. So any of those mediums work for me. Perfect. As mentioned, all the links will be in the show notes, so if you're listening now, [00:32:20] go down there, check out Gavin, he has tons of content out there and lots of free stuff out there. And get yourself, um, upgraded on email marketing and if you need help, reach out to him.

Gavin, thanks so much for your time today. It was a really good overview. I like it. Thank you for having me. Before you leave, don't forget to visit the sponsor of today's episode. [00:32:40] Time to take your marketing to the next level. REVO is the all-in-one marketing platform that helps you connect with customers through email, SMS, WhatsApp and automation, all from one easy to use platform.

Keep your customer data organized, personalize every message, and drive real engagement effortlessly. Try Brevo for free or use ECB to save 50% on starter and business [00:33:00] plans for the first three months of an annual subscription. Head to bvo.com/ecb Today you will find a link also in the show notes.

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