Boost Revenue with These Proven Cross-Sell Tactics — Varun Kundra | How Personalization Drives Upsell Success, Why Cross-selling and Upselling Boost AOV, Why Post-purchase Offers Leverage the "Dopamine Kick", What are Entry Points for Upselling (#332)

In this episode, we dive into strategies for boosting your online store’s average order value (AOV) through effective cross-selling. Joining the conversation is Varun Kundra, Co-founder of AfterSell.com, a Shopify app used by over 20,000 brands for upselling and cross-selling. Varun shares insights on consumer psychology, personalization, and how merchants can seamlessly integrate third-party offers to maximize profits without additional effort. 

Topics discussed in this episode:  

• Why cross-selling and upselling boost AOV in a high acquisition cost environment 
• How personalization and relevance improve upsell and cross-sell success 
• What entry points exist for upselling: in-cart, checkout, post-purchase 
• Why post-purchase offers work due to the "dopamine kick" 
• What "network offers" are and how they display third-party offers 
• What revenue potential exists for merchants using network offers 

Links & Resources

Website: https://www.aftersell.com/
Shopify App Store: https://apps.shopify.com/aftersell
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vk1/
X/Twitter: https://x.com/varkundra

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
https://t.ly/VFUA- 

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Transcript

Claus Lauter: Welcome to the eCommerce Coffee Break podcast. In today's episode, we discuss how you can create an effective cross selling strategy for your online store. Joining me on the show is Varun Kundra, co founder of AfterSell. com. So let's dive right into it.

Voice over: This is the eCommerce Coffee Break. A top rated Shopify growth podcast dedicated to Shopify merchants. and business owners looking to grow their online stores. Learn how to survive in the fast changing e commerce world with your host Claus Lauter and get marketing advice you can't find on Google.

Voice over: Welcome to the show. 

Claus Lauter: Hello, welcome to another episode of the e commerce coffee break podcast. Today we want to talk about ways on how to increase your average order value, your AOV. Now, one of a very effective strategy to do that is to use cross selling. And we want to dive deeper into that, what kind of strategies you can follow and what kind of features you need to have to get most out of it.

Claus Lauter: For that, Joining me on the show today is Varun Kundra. He's the co founder of AfterSell, a Shopify app used by over 20, 000 brands to boost average order value with an upselling and cross selling. AfterSell was acquired by rockstar. com this year. And we want to dive a little bit into this and I'd like to welcome Varun.

Claus Lauter: Hi Varun, how are you today? Hey Klaus, thanks for having me and doing great. Let's dive into it. This is so cross selling. upsell, cross sell, all of that. Tell me, what's the psychology behind it? What is the thought process behind this whole thing? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so the context is that today, customer acquisition costs are an all time high and they're ever increasing.

Varun Kundra: And in that environment, it's really important to, uh, maximize your AOV, right? You want to make the most out of each shopper. And one of the most compelling ways to do that is through upsells and cross sells. And you know, that's kind of the thesis behind our whole business. We started the business about four years ago and we started with doing it post purchase.

Varun Kundra: Um, so that means right after you check out. We create this full landing page with another offer. Um, and then we also continue to grow that to check out as well as to cart. So yeah, now we have a basically a full upselling platform that's become the go to platform with Shopify. 

Claus Lauter: Why is it that customers often say yes to additional products?

Claus Lauter: I mean, they want to buy one thing in the first place and then there is something that make them buy more. How does that work? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, 

Claus Lauter: great 

Varun Kundra: question. Um, I think the upsells that work the best. Are from people who really understand the consumer psychology. So it's all about positioning and framing, right?

Varun Kundra: Like if you're going through a purchase and then you see right after and right after you have a euphoria moment of completing the transaction, you see a personalized, relevant offer with perhaps a discount or like a full landing page that explains like why it's compelling. That'll work a lot better than just, you know, some random offer that.

Varun Kundra: Doesn't really look nice or like have much accompanying copy or things like that. Um, it's all about relevance and understanding like why someone would purchase as you're saying. Um, and the answer depends per store, depends per, you know, customer persona. All these things are, are important to maximize the, the effect of cross selling and upselling.

Claus Lauter: You mentioned personalization. How important is that? How important is that you get something or I don't know your user behavior or how do you find out? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, it is important. We try to enable it as much as possible, like even even something as simple as having like the person's name on the upsell offer makes a difference.

Varun Kundra: Um, that's what we allow a lot of merchants to do is like, you know, just saying like, Hey, Klaus, like you've unlocked XYZ offer. That's more effective than just saying you've unlocked XYZ offer, um, something as small as that makes a difference and, you know, deeper level we have, uh, we have a system where people can create different funnels, uh, so different, uh, customer journeys can be targeted with different types of offers and the more you're able to tap into that, the more you're able to, you know, understand those customer journeys and show different offers.

Varun Kundra: That are relevant for those types of customer journeys, the more effective you'll be. 

Claus Lauter: I want to learn a little bit more about these different funnels. Obviously, these funnels might have different entry points. Are we talking here about in cart, about checkout, post purchase, upsells, confirmation pages?

Claus Lauter: There's different ways to do that. Talk me through the different ways on how to get someone to buy more. 

Varun Kundra: So yeah, there's a bunch of different ways. So it starts with with the card. So we have a full slider card product where we allow merchants to create a card that feels on brand and then also has these ways to boost AOVs.

Varun Kundra: There's direct like upsells and cross sells. So at the bottom it's like, you know, it kind of shows a carousel where there's a bunch of additional items that you can add to cart. We also have this concept of add ons where it's a bit different. It's also an upsell, but it's a bit different in the way it's implemented.

Varun Kundra: Um, it's, it's more used for things like Shipping protection or extended warranty or these kinds of like things where it's not a direct new product. It's kind of like You know, enhancing what you are, what you're already purchasing in some way, then in checkout, uh, we, we have offers that are like almost part of the checkout.

Varun Kundra: So it feels native, you know, it feels like it's just right there at the right moment. Um, and then lastly, post purchase, like I mentioned, we have a full page, uh, where we can kind of create a landing page. And I think that's actually the most effective for generating additional revenue just because. It's right after the transaction.

Varun Kundra: So, you know, whenever you buy something, there is a little bit of dopamine that happens and that, that kind of primes that the shopper to see this author, see this offer and be receptive to it. Um, and then also it's like a full page, so there's really nothing else to be distracted by or think about. 

Claus Lauter: Okay, this dopamine kick makes me almost feeling bad as a marketeer, but it definitely works.

Claus Lauter: Now, if I don't have a product to upsell, I understand you came up with something that I have never heard before. Um, so basically you can have products from someone else in there. What is that about? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah. Great question. Yeah. So, um, as you mentioned earlier on, uh, we're now part of a larger company called rocked and rocked is really an enterprise company.

Varun Kundra: Um, what they do is they, they show. Third party offers on sites like Best Buy, Ticketmaster. So you'll be browsing on these sites, you'll check out, and then when you complete your purchase, they'll show you an offer from another blue chip company. Like they'll show an offer from HelloFresh, or Audible, or Disney Plus.

Varun Kundra: Um, and this is pretty interesting because what's happening here is we're kind of, we're allowing these sites to become basically retail media networks, like on Best Buy, on Ticketmaster. Now they're leveraging that. Really valuable real estate they have for other companies. Um, so now it's almost like an, it's, it's basically an advertising model where Disney plus audible, all these companies will pay per click, um, for the shoppers on ticket master on Best Buy.

Varun Kundra: Um, and you know, this is, like I said, very interesting and it's very valuable for these enterprise brands. Uh, but we noticed it wasn't a thing on Shopify. So. We kind of wanted to steal this idea that works so well in the enterprise and bring it to this ecosystem of emerging brands. Um, and that's kind of how the whole acquisition came about.

Varun Kundra: That's what we're focused on, um, you know, in the next years, next couple of years. 

Claus Lauter: How do I find this third party brand that has something that works with my product upsell? How does it work? Great 

Varun Kundra: question. So that's really a rock's job. The job of our product is to make sure that The offers are personalized and are relevant.

Varun Kundra: Uh, there's hundreds of advertisers. So there's enough breadth out there that, you know, there will be something that is relevant for, um, for your store and for your shoppers. And that's also just like really much, really very much in like the long term incentive of our company, right? Like if we can't show personalized, relevant offers, those offers won't convert.

Varun Kundra: If they won't convert, then you won't be happy as the merchant and the advertisers won't be happy either. 

Claus Lauter: Now we are on a podcast when the audio, we cannot really show the app in real life. Um, talk me through the, the way on how you implement that and how do you control it? There might be advertisers, um, having products that you don't want to have or the other ones you want to be picky.

Claus Lauter: How does it work? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah. Um, so the actual implementation, uh, for Shopify brands is within AfterSell now. So you just install the AfterSell app and there's a page for network offers and you can basically set it up there. Um, and yeah, you can block certain domains. So, for example, if you don't want, um, I don't know, some XYZ advertiser, you can block that advertiser's domain, and you can also block verticals and sub verticals.

Varun Kundra: So if you don't want a category of advertising, you can block that entire category. And yeah, you can also make sure that the offers look like they're part of your store. So we allow merchants to kind of change the UI, the colors, all these kinds of things to make it feel like it's part of the brand. Um, and that's another just important part for conversion as well.

Claus Lauter: Now coming back to increasing average order value, where do I earn as a merchant on this kind of partnership? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, so the way it works is that, um, the advertisers pay per click, and then, uh, half of the revenue that's earned from that is shared with the merchant, uh, so it's a 50 50 rev share model, um, and, you know, for the merchant it's pure profit, right, like there's no associated cost with, with doing that.

Varun Kundra: And for us, um, there's, there's lots of costs, obviously, but, uh, in a way, it's really like the merchant. It's 90 percent of the profit and 10 percent of the profit goes to our company. 

Claus Lauter: Hey, Klaus here. Just a quick one. If you like the content of this episode, sign up for our free newsletter and become a smarter Shopify merchant in just seven minutes per week.

Claus Lauter: We create content from more than 50 sources, saving you hours of research and helping you stay on top of your e commerce game with the latest news, insights, and trends. Every Thursday in your inbox, 100 percent free. Join now at newsletter dot e commerce coffee break dot com. That is newsletter dot e commerce coffee break dot com.

Claus Lauter: And now back to the show. Can you give me an example and you don't need to name the brand, um, on what kind of results a, um, a merchant saw by implementing this kind of solution? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, sure. Um, I'm happy to talk about some of the brands that we work with. Um, we work with lots of top brands on Shopify, uh, true classic Jones for beauty.

Varun Kundra: Um, recently we started working with skims. I won't go into their specifics like you mentioned, but basically it's based on, you know, every based on how many transactions they have. Um, so. Um, one of the largest brands we work with has like hundreds of thousands of transactions a month. And so, you know, they're able to generate 30 cents for every single transaction.

Varun Kundra: So that can be like 30, 000 a month in pure profit just from this concept. 

Claus Lauter: Okay. And it sounds very interesting. How does the implementation work? Do I need to do some homework or what's kind of the setup structure to get it up and running? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, we've made it as simple as possible. Um, so yeah, it's within AfterSell.

Varun Kundra: You install AfterSell, there's a page dedicated just for this, this whole concept of network offers. Um, within 10 minutes you can enable it. Basically that page, what it allows you to do is, like I mentioned, kind of change the UI, change the colors, make sure that the offers look like they're part of your brand, um, and then you can also, you know, edit the verticals that you want to show or block.

Varun Kundra: Um, super simple. 

Claus Lauter: Can I do this on a product level or collection level, or is it just a general implementation of how far goes the tuning there? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, so for network offers specifically, the idea is that it shows on the order confirmation page. It's not based on like what's being purchased, um, the offers show may, you know, be personalized based on what's purchased.

Varun Kundra: But, you know, it'll, it'll be showing regardless of what's bought. Um, it's, it's not funnel specific. Um, now what you can do is that you can, you can edit the visibility of the offer. So for example, let's say you just want to do a test and you want to show it for half of your customers or 25 percent of your customers.

Varun Kundra: You can edit that visibility within the app so that, you know, for now you're testing, you don't want to show it to everyone. You can do that. Um, there's no like set up that, you know, you'll show XYZ offers for specific products. It's, it's really like our job to, you know, personalize the offers and make it relevant.

Claus Lauter: Now, I see there an opportunity to have it the other way around. If I was my brand, want to be on the confirmation pages of other brands, uh, is that Roktor is dealing with that? Is that possible? And how does it work? 

Varun Kundra: Absolutely. Um, it is possible. It's something that we're. Actively exploring. Um, right now, advertising on rocked has been mostly like I said in the enterprise and with these larger brands.

Varun Kundra: Um, but we are starting to work with, um, you know, these emerging brands as an advertiser. Um, it's it's kind of more of a trial period for us. But, uh, yeah, absolutely. Something that's possible. Um, again, it's really depends on, you know, the brand awareness and what specific offer they're trying to do, what success looks like for them.

Claus Lauter: Who's your perfect customer? Are there specific industries or niches that are really working well with that? 

Varun Kundra: Yeah, so I would say there's no specific, uh, vertical or niche that works, um, really, really well. Like, honestly, our product has mass appeal, um, like as long as you have more than one product that you want to, Upsell.

Varun Kundra: Um, it's, it's usually pretty effective. Um, even if you have one product, you know, some, some people just upsell the same product. You could do that and they have like a discount or they, they upsell like a, you know, a larger quantity of their product. Um, so really like, yeah, basically any store almost can use after.

Varun Kundra: So, um, yeah, and we, we have stores like in, in basically all the countries that Shopify operates on. 

Claus Lauter: Okay, cool. It sounds good. Tell me a little bit about the pricing structure. 

Varun Kundra: We price, uh, based on order volume and based on what parts of our product are being used. Um, so like I mentioned, we have three components.

Varun Kundra: Um, we have checkout, we have the cart, and we have post purchase. And then our pricing is based on how many orders a month. The shoppers have so, um, it goes from 35 to 800 now for post purchase. Um, I think it's about 35 to 200 for a cart. Um, checkout is a flat 9 a month. Um, so yeah, it's based based on which modules are being used.

Varun Kundra: Um, and then the network offers that I talked about. That one, there's no pricing because we actually pay you as a merchant. Um, it's a way to generate. So, 

Claus Lauter: okay. You mentioned before that you can adjust, um, the look and feel to your brand. Is this a no code solution or do I need to help from a developer or from your side?

Varun Kundra: Yeah. Yeah. So throughout the app and all the different modules and ways that we help merchants generate revenue, you've, you've tried to maximize How much commercial merchants can personalize their offers and change the look and feel in a no code way. Um, so whatever is basically possible within the Shopify APIs we've, we've tried to do.

Claus Lauter: Okay, cool. For me, it sounds like a great solution to, to bring just other brands into your brand, other third party products into your brand. And then. Basically, as I said, make a ton of money without any further work from your side. Before we come to the end of the coffee break today, is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners?

Varun Kundra: Um, no, honestly, it could be part of the podcast. Um, if anyone is, you know, has any questions, feel free to message me. I'm on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn. 

Claus Lauter: Okay, cool. Excellent. I will put the links in the show notes. So then you will be just one click away. A lot of people will come over to you and check it out again after.

Claus Lauter: sell and also Rokta are two companies that are around for a very long time. So they're not new players in the market. And I think the concept that you came up with is, is brilliant. Um, just gives you a way to make more money with not additional, putting additional work on your plate. So definitely something that merchants should try out.

Claus Lauter: Thanks so much for your time today and hope to talk soon. Thanks, Klaus. Hey, Klaus here. Thank you for joining me on another episode of the e commerce Coffee Break podcast. Before you go, I'd like to ask two things from you. First, please help me with the algorithm so I can bring more impactful guests on the show.

Claus Lauter: It will make it also easier for others to discover the podcast. Simply like, comment, and subscribe in the app you're using to listen to the podcast, and even better if you could leave a rating. And finally, sign up for our free newsletter and become a Smarter Shopify merchant in just seven minutes per week.

Claus Lauter: We create content from more than 50 sources, saving you hours of research and helping you stay on top of your e commerce game with the latest news, insights, and trends. Every Thursday in your inbox, 100 percent free. Join now at newsletter. ecommercecoffeebreak. com. That is newsletter. ecommercecoffeebreak.

Claus Lauter: com. Thanks again, and I'll catch you in the next episode. Have a good one.