Why You Can't Scale with Just Shopify (Do This Instead) — Adam Shaffer | How Shopify and Amazon Work Together in an Ecommerce Strategy, How Amazon's High Traffic Helps Shopify Sellers, How Brands Manage and Benefit from Both Amazon and Shopify

In this episode, we reveal the ultimate blueprint for doubling your online sales.

Discover how savvy entrepreneurs are leveraging the power of Shopify and Amazon to create unstoppable multichannel empires. 

Our featured guest on the show is Adam Shaffer, President at phelpsunited.com

Topics discussed in this episode: 

• Why Shopify and Amazon have become a good match for e-commerce businesses 
• How using both Shopify and Amazon can help double sales and achieve greater success 
• What advantages Amazon's logistics and fulfillment services offer to Shopify merchants 
• How expanding to multiple marketplaces and countries can grow your e-commerce brand 
• Why having different product assortments on Shopify and Amazon can be beneficial 
• What strategies work best for leveraging Amazon's traffic to drive customers to your Shopify store 

Links & Resources

Website: https://phelpsunited.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-w-shaffer/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PhelpsUNITED

Get access to more free resources by visiting the show notes at
t.ly/f4DrV 

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Transcript

Claus Lauter: Welcome to the e commerce coffee break podcast. In today's episode, we discuss how to double sales and achieve success by implementing a multi channel strategy on Shopify and Amazon. Joining me on the show is Adam Shaffer, president at phelpsunited. com. So let's get started. A 

Voice over: top rated Shopify growth podcast dedicated to Shopify merchants.

And business owners looking to grow their online stores. Learn how to survive in the fast changing e-commerce world with your host Claus Lauter, and get marketing advice you can't find on Google. Welcome. Welcome to the show. 

Claus Lauter: Hello. Welcome to another episode of the e-Commerce Coffee Break podcast. Today we want to talk about how to master a multi-channel strategy with Shopify and Amazon.

So that you can double your sales and your success with me. I have Adam Shaffer. He's the president of helpsunited. com, a leading e commerce accelerator, it channel enabling platform and marketplace agency. Adam is a pioneer in direct marketing and digital e commerce of technology products and solutions to both consumer and 30 years of industry experience.

The unique ability to manage large organizations and startups. He has been responsible for successfully managing and driving growth at some of the largest publicly traded IT solution providers, and he's also the host of the Planet Amazon podcast. So let's welcome him to the show. Hi Adam, how are you today?

Adam Shaffer: Hello Claus, thanks for the introduction. That was awesome. I'm impressed with myself. That is great. Thank you. So, um, thank you for having me on your show. Hopefully we'll get to have you on our show, Planet Amazon. So. Um, you know, let's see what this goes. How do you want to begin our conversation today?

Because I love talking about e commerce. 

Claus Lauter: Me too. So Shopify and Amazon, is that a good match or not? Let's dive right into it. You're 

Adam Shaffer: just getting right to the point. I get it. No small talk. So, you know, again, I think, you know, when we were talking earlier, I used to think that, you know, do you really want to be on Amazon?

Um, with, with, you know, all the competition, all the price shopping. Do you want to keep your channel super clean and focus on your direct business with Shopify? And I've changed my opinion from no, you don't to yes, you do. And I'll tell you why. Um, I, I think first of all, both platforms are great. Uh, Amazon is just huge, huge, huge.

But I think what Shopify brings to the table is. Um, so much power for, for anybody. So if you're a novice to an experienced e commerce professional, the Shopify platform works. I mean, I used to manage, uh, I don't know if you remember the company, it was called tiger direct. com, but it was probably one of the largest e commerce sellers, um, on the planet at one time, we were doing a couple of billion dollars in it equipment, uh, um, a month.

And. It was, um, it was huge, but the amount of it resources and work that we had to do to keep that site up to date, going, working and adding features, if somebody ever wanted to, um, ask us to, you know, put a new payment method, like when PayPal first came out, or if you wanted to do a firm or anything like that, it was, uh, an act of Congress to try to get.

Our it department to focus and work on that and then test it. And it could take a year. With, uh, Shopify, it's just, it's all there. It's all integrated. You got all these people working on your platform and all you need to do is think about marketing and selling. So I love the platform and I'm a big Shopify fan.

If I had it back then, we would save a lot of money and a lot of headache. Why, why Amazon? And why did the two work together? Well, Amazon doesn't necessarily love competitors and Shopify. Also doesn't love competitors. So they try to stay away and they've tried to stay away from each other until the last year or so.

And, and, and as time has gone on, I think they realized they could both coexist and help each other. We were on the Amazon platform, very competitive, but there is a lot of traffic. So you got about 640 billion of merchandise being sold through that platform. You kind of want to be there. Um, even though you have to pay your fees, if you have the right product, You want to be there if you want to expand your marketplace, you want to be there.

But does it affect your Shopify sales? It could, if you do it wrong, but it can augment your Shopify direct sales, if you do it right. And let me try to explain. So I don't confuse you all. First of all, Shopify integrates with Amazon. So if you want to manage your Amazon listings, you could actually do it.

Loading your products into Shopify. So they work nicely together. Also. Back in the day, Amazon used to make you have catalog parody, meaning that if you sell it on your site, you have to also sell it on the Amazon site. Well, that's chain. So you could have a different assortment on your site than you do on the Amazon site.

So if you're a clothing brand, or if you're even an electronics brand, pick any category. You can have your full assortment, tell your brand story, have a connection with your customer base. But maybe put the top five products on Amazon or a few other products. You don't have to have the whole assortment there.

Maybe you want to have certain colors on Amazon and you want to have unique colors on your own. So you don't have to be in parity. Why could that be good? Well, if people buy your product and find you on Amazon. They're going to be interested in your brand. If you have a good brand, if you have a quality product, they're going to go to your Shopify site and they don't know they're going to your Shopify site.

They're looking up your URL, but they want to learn more about this brand that they found on Amazon and they're going to start to learn more about you. Or maybe they will go to your site first and try to buy something from Amazon because it's easier for them because they have an account set up because they know that Amazon will get into them faster because it's free delivery.

If they have prime. So, so maybe they will go there and buy something from Amazon, but you now have somebody that's interested in your product, maybe they're going to buy it again from you, and if it's a subscription type of product, maybe they will continue to buy from Amazon, maybe they'll buy it from you, or maybe they'll buy it even from another reseller.

So I think when it comes to acquiring new customers. Amazon now helps because you're going to get certain amount of traffic that goes to Amazon. That's going to go to Shopify. So for me, it's prospecting. I'm going to get new customers. If they buy from Amazon, a percentage of them are going to come find me and learn more about my brand.

And now I got them. If they sign up for a newsletter, I can introduce new products to them. I could talk to them. And when they do buy on your Shopify website. You own them when they buy an Amazon's website, you don't really own them. Maybe you rent them for a few minutes. If you want, you could spend some money on advertising to advertise to your Amazon.

But once they buy through you, you kind of own them. So it really comes down to the product, the product assortment. If you're a one product company, you got to make that decision. Do I want it on Amazon? But if you have multiple products, multiple colors, um, It's a really good idea. So that's part one. I think it's a great way for you to be able to grow your business by leveraging Amazon's traffic and having a bunch of it migrate back to you.

And you don't have to have every viewer ASIN on Amazon. So that's one. Number two. Inventory Amazon is actually one of the best logistics company, if not the best logistics company on the planet, and you can now keep your products up at FBA. So low cost storage, lower cost than most real estate would cost, you know, in the U S and they'll pick, pack and ship your products for you.

If somebody buys it on your Shopify site and they'll ship it in a Brown box, not an Amazon box. So now you don't have to have inventory here, inventory there. You can keep it up at Amazon and they will be your 3PL. That's pretty cool because their shipping rates are so much better than most of the shipping rates that most get.

I mean, sometimes if you ship USPS is very, very small, maybe you could beat them, but you're going to get fast delivery, Amazon speed. And you have everything stocked up there. So you could sell on Amazon with that same inventory that you're selling on your Shopify site. That's incredibly convenient. And now you don't have to pick and pack the stuff in your own warehouse.

If they're having and holding the SKU, whether you sell the SKU on Amazon or not, you could stock it up there. So that's, I think also a misnomer. Do I have to sell it? No, you don't. You could keep it up there. You could sell some on Amazon, some not Amazon, none on Amazon, but they'll do your 3PL fulfillment.

So. That to me is a huge, huge benefit. Now, the next thing that Amazon has added recently is buy with prime. So they have a payment method where you could, a Shopify customer as a plugin, where you could plug in as a payment method, buy with prime. So you could buy using your Amazon account and get it shipped prime speed.

Through Amazon. So, so many customers don't want to have to set up a new account. They think of it as like a wallet. So they just click the button. Amazon takes care of it. You get paid and it's done. So we're seeing more and more, um, uptake on the buy with prime. It didn't take off immediately, but it's now picking up.

And I think part of it is the trust factor is Amazon trying to steal your customers or not. I think Amazon wants to own the world, but. I think that you could coexist with them. Um, and, and they can help you grow your business on your Shopify site while you're growing on an Amazon. So those are my big three things.

I think it's great for managing ASINs and getting extra customers at a low cost. I think it's great for logistics because you don't have to keep the products in your own warehouse anymore. And I think that it adds another way that people could pay for your products using buy with prime and buying with prime gives people a lot of confidence.

They're going to get it fast. 

Claus Lauter: Hey Claus here, just a quick one. If you like the content of this episode, sign up for our free newsletter and become a Smarter Shopify Merchant in just 7 minutes per week. We curate content from more than 50 sources, saving you hours of research and helping you stay on top of your e commerce game with the latest news, insights, and trends.

Every Thursday in your inbox, 100 percent free, join now at newsletter. ecommercecoffeebreak. com. That is newsletter. ecommercecoffeebreak. com. And now back to the show. Yeah, I think Shopify and Amazon. Is a good marriage. Um, two years ago, my mindset was slightly different than it is now because, um, there were more competitors and you needed to make, make a decision where you want to go.

Um, I think now there's, it's a no brainer that you need to use as a merchant, as a online seller, both channels. Um, you just mentioned all the three pillars or the three levels or areas of advantages that this brings with it. And I think the, the big thing is that You basically only, you can win strategies might be slightly different what you do marketing wise, sales wise on Shopify than on Amazon.

Um, obviously Amazon has his own, um, advertisement system and you mentioned the data is a little bit limited what you get out of it, but if you do it the right way with the right strategy, um, it's a bit of a win win situation for you, um, because you can build your customer base. Um, as I said, people start Googling you and, but the trust factor and the traffic, um, is mainly on, on Amazon to begin with, um, specifically as a new brand, you have to build up your, your brand, your name, um, before people starting trusting you with the approval process and everything that comes with it on Amazon, people usually trust the brands that are selling on Amazon.

So huge advantage there. 

Adam Shaffer: Whether they, whether they trust the brands or not, they trust Amazon. So they know whatever they buy. Amazon's not going to leave middle lurch. So Amazon will take care of them. But if you're a new brand and you're on Amazon only, if you know, creating a Shopify site is a great incremental extension, because then you start to have a better relationship with your customers, but they will Google you.

They'll get to find out more about, in fact, before they buy it, they might look you up, so you need to have a really good site to be able to really market your product. Yeah. You have great content on Amazon, but still. People want to look at the brand sometimes when they go to their store and their Shopify store and they look them up and they can learn a lot.

Plus you have a lot more real estate on your own website and you could do a lot there, but I think starting on Amazon and then starting your own Shopify site thereafter, it's not a bad strategy and there's plenty of built on Amazon brands. That want to diversify a little bit more and have a deeper relationship with their customers.

But then there's plenty of Shopify customers that haven't, and been scared to and find every reason not to do Amazon, and I think try it, do it in a limited fashion, so you feel good about it and then it'll grow it. And then what's interesting now is Amazon does want to get the business, right? So they're trying to give you even incented discounts.

If you advertise on Google. And you push the traffic to them so you can get 8%, 10 percent back. So normally a Shopify customer would advertise on Google and have it go to their own site because they don't have to pay the Amazon commission or the fees. But got to do the task and see if I advertise on Google and I push them to my page on Amazon.

Well, my conversion rates be a lot higher because they trust buying from Amazon. They have their account already set up and maybe they don't have their account already set up with me. It's a pain in the neck. I don't want to put my information in who are these guys. So it, you know, I would test the advertising too.

I would test my Google advertising, put some to Amazon, put some to my Shopify. See what has the better conversion rates. And you see, even with the fee, if they're going to give you a 10 percent discount, uh, or rebate, It could very well be worth it. So fly them off each other, 

Claus Lauter: make it work. Oh, it's a bit of a sneaky strategy.

We, as a marketeer, I always would try to get hold of the customer or of the prospect's email address in the first place. Um, that gives me the chance to grow on that basis. My business was returning customers, doing all the email marketing, retargeting and whatsoever, then sending them directly to Amazon where they sort of disappear in a black hole and that I don't get anything out of it.

I might get the first sale, but I might have more difficult to get the second and third sale out of it. So again, that's something what you said, uh, test it out, see what works better. Um, potentially do both, um, depending on your marketing spends, um, it might be a way to do both of these things, um, to convert customers faster.

Now with your experience, um, where do you see Shopify immersions? Wanting to go into Amazon, where do they struggle the most when they get started? 

Adam Shaffer: I think just Amazon is a complicated marketplace and that's what we do is we help brand market and sell and deal with all the logistics because Amazon is very big, you're not going to get much personal help.

Uh, it's kind of a black hole, the rules change every day. Uh, they don't actually advertise what rules are changing or what's not. A lot of it's just doing it every day and the experience of doing it, understanding how to write cases. So, you know, I think start slow, start with a few products. Don't put hundreds and hundreds of SKUs or ASINs up right away.

Learn the platform. There's plenty of videos. There's plenty of companies like ours that can help. Of course, we're the best, but there's people that can help you and join communities, Shopify has communities, Amazon has communities join, and you can ask people because once you get a lot of people trying a bunch of different things, people find out the answers and they'll share their information.

Although we're very competitive. It seems it's everybody likes to help each other. Everybody wants to solve a problem on Amazon. So even the fiercest competitors share information, uh, because they, it's almost like do one good for me and I'll do one good for you kind of thing. So, you know, I, I recommend that, but I do think it's different because once you start selling on Amazon, you got to understand and track the information.

Sometimes if they don't like your ASIN, something will happen and it'll come off. Or somebody goes onto your race and then messes with it. So you need to get what they call brand registry to try and protect your content. So you need to learn a little bit before you go on there. So really, I think initially get some help to get your products on Amazon, even though you could manage it through Shopify.

Do you want to get your content right? Do you want to get your advertising strategy right? And you want to understand what happens once you're on there. How do you start building momentum? Plus you need to get reviews. And so Amazon has a few programs that you can join and they'll help you get reviews.

You always need a lot more than they're going to help you get. So the reviews are a big deal on Amazon. Uh, but again, I think that traffic you're going to find out once you go on Amazon, people are going to find you and they're going to trip over to your site. Like, you know, again, I don't think I advertise that to the Amazon folks.

I'm sure they know that, but a percentage of the people are going to come over because they want to learn about the brand. I want to learn about the brand. I want to learn what are the cool things that they do. And also if it's some type of product that you really felt passionate about, there's usually a community.

And the only way to join that community is go to the website and get their newsletter and go to their blog and read more about it. So I don't care if it's biking equipment, you know, a headlight and a taillight. I just recently bought for my bike. And now I'm, I'm going to the website for this company all the time.

I bought it on Amazon, but I now go to the brand's website because they actually have a blog and I learn about other things that other people are doing and meetups and things like that. So it's really interesting how the brand, once you get connected to a brand, even if you didn't know who the brand was, you want to spend more time with that brand and learn about that brand as long as the product is good, which is really important.

Don't don't try to market. Uh, junky product. Um, I guess it's pretty obvious. 

Claus Lauter: That's pretty obvious. But it's your example just gave a perfect idea of how such a synergy effect can work. Um, finding a product, wanting to learn more about the product and find a blog, find documentation, find other products on the brand's website, on the Shopify store, whatsoever, directly.

Now, Shopify is growing by the day and has a million different features by now as Amazon does as a small and medium enterprise. Um, the last thing is spending too much time on having more and more to learn. Um, so maybe you can give me an idea about the comparison. If I want to start with Amazon at the timeline, how much time does it take me compared to working with an expert like yours?

Taking over and doing the same thing. 

Adam Shaffer: So that's a great question. So if you're, if you're a novice and you're coming onto Amazon for the first time, even if you're computer literate, it really isn't to do with being computer literate, it's, it's to do with navigating Amazon because their, their UI is reasonably easy to understand.

Before you learn all the tricks and there's always more learn, but the big one, it takes about a year for you to actually understand what can happen It might be a year before you completely reconcile your account and realize, my God, what happened to all this stuff? So in, in, in six to 12 months, you start to learn all the different things that could go wrong and go right with your product.

So I think getting somebody at the beginning, um, is going to help you. It could be that you want them to help you forever. But at least you should get them for six to eight months to get you established on Amazon. And then, you know, when it comes to Shopify, there are other companies that help there too.

But I think it's a little more straightforward. Um, you don't have the same race with Amazon. Once you start in the Amazon world, answer questions within a certain amount of time, you need to make sure that you're answering customers. If there's a logistics problem, you got to solve it immediately. So you don't really have time.

Everything's on the meter. If you don't respond, Amazon is watching and you'll get some demerits and ultimately you'll get kicked off the platform. So you gotta be a good citizen on Amazon and comply with your rules. 

Claus Lauter: No, I worked or I was using Amazon about three, four years ago and relatively quickly, I made a decision to find someone helping me there.

Um, as an entrepreneur, I stick to trying to understand the process as quick as possible. And then find somebody who's better than me, but at least once I have the basics done myself, I can talk to somebody basically on eye level. Um, and they know that they can talk to me on the same level. Um, no, you're helping e commerce merchants getting on Amazon and doing everything that we just talked about.

How does that work? What's the onboarding process? What kind of timeline is it? Give me a bit. So there's, 

Adam Shaffer: there's two different kinds of, of, and we, we work with brands. So if a brand is reasonably new. There's a lot of heavy lifting that goes on because you have to create the content from scratch. You have to get used.

So the onboarding process takes a bit longer and getting it. Traffic could be expensive and take a while. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that because they do. There's about 2 million sellers on Amazon. It's a process that you have to be patient with and it takes time. So the onboarding could be a bit of time because you have to share a lot of information back and forth with a company like us.

If you're an established brand and, you know, established brands have other reasons for working with us, they're already selling on Amazon, but they're either selling to Amazon and they want to not put all their eggs in one basket with Amazon, then they want to get somebody to maybe manage some of their agents for them aside from Amazon.

Their channel is so complicated that there's many sellers selling their products and they're selling it at lower prices than they really like them to be selling it at. They're bringing it in from overseas and they're selling it here where they shouldn't be. And so they need a company to go in and help them call it, clean up their channel and help them with brand protection.

So it's a lot more fun to work with the brand that's already selling on Amazon and has some momentum because that heavy lifting of starting up Their stuff from scratch is not there. The complicated part is getting some of these bad actors on, you know, off the skew. So the onboarding is they would come to us, we would analyze their ASINs.

We would see how much is it going to cost for us to be able to market their products and sell it on Amazon, because in our model with established brands, we buy and sell their products for them on Amazon. So we are their 3P seller. And so as long as we could make an arrangement where we could make some margin by selling their products on Amazon, we completely overnight streamline their process of having to reconcile their account, having to put in cases, having to do any of the advertising, having to update any of the content.

We do it all for them and we buy and sell it. So really it's a matter of let's analyze your ASINs, let's understand and come up with a fair price that we would pay. If we can make some margin on this, then we're good to go. And it's as simple as that. Once we get going, we place a purchase order and we meet with them once a week or every other week, however often they want to meet, we strategize with them, but all on the marketing building and we're making sure they never run out of stock.

So to me, established brands are a bit more fun. New brands are much more challenging. There's a lot of costs because you have to make some noise. So there's definitely organic stuff you could do. But you're going to have to spend money on advertising. And you know, that's where it gets a little, you know, how much can I spend?

And I'm a brand new brand. I don't have that much money. Well, it's going to be a much longer growth path if you don't try to invest. 

Claus Lauter: What are, or who's your perfect customer? What kind of industry niche? 

Adam Shaffer: Well, it's funny. We, we came from the technology industry, so we knew a lot of the brands already. And we knew what issues and problems they had, but once you could do technology, because the products change quite often, you could do almost any category.

So right now we're into 14 different categories and it's, it's from technology products to clothing, to, um, cosmetics, to pet food, uh, coffee. And, you know, it doesn't matter as long as you can make the math work. The game on Amazon is the same. Um, you know, it's, it's really good to understand who your competitors are.

So you really do study the categories, but the process of Amazon is very much the same. So technology is tough because it's low, low, low gross margin. Um, but the perfect products at Amazon are products that have a lot of velocity and are small, or have high average selling price and are small. Anything that's small is a lot more fun.

That's anything that's big. And that's where a lot of brands get into trouble because once you start trying to ship 30 pound bags of dog food or 40 pound bags of dog food on Amazon, you know, the shipping is more than the cost. Like it's, it's shocking. So the perfect, the perfect product on Amazon is small and light, high average selling price.

The math works a lot better that way for everybody. 

Claus Lauter: I can imagine selling furniture on Amazon is probably not the best idea, 

Adam Shaffer: but they do. And, you know, I, I think you can see there's a heavy bag, not that I use a heavy bag. My daughter does. And, um, I bought it from Amazon. I got it the next day. It weighs a hundred pounds.

Like I, I don't know how they did it. I have no idea. I think it was 99. I think it would cost 99 to deliver it. Maybe more probably cost more than a hundred. So how I, I don't, I don't get some of it, but. Uh, maybe there was a local store that was selling on Amazon and they just drop it off. Probably would happen, but, um, it's always better when it's small, small and light, but, but just plenty of furniture that does well.

On Amazon. There's plenty of big products that do well on Amazon, but I think as time goes on and freight becomes a much bigger percentage of the total sale, it's hard. 

Claus Lauter: It makes perfect sense. Adam, before we come to the end of our coffee break today, is there anything that you want to share with the business that we haven't covered yet?

Adam Shaffer: Well, there's always more Claus, but I think, you know, I think if you're, if you're, um, if you're into e commerce and you're not trying to grow your brand within different marketplaces. You should really look at it because there's ways to protect your brand, protect your price and build your brand by participating, not just on Amazon, not just on Shopify, but you should be doing it a in other countries where you can, where it makes sense.

And you should be doing it on different marketplaces. And there are plenty, it gets complicated. So it's good to have partners, but you know, Walmart is quite big, nowhere near as big as Amazon is, but it's. For certain products it's worth doing. So I would look at it all, but if you're doing the U S and you're doing Shopify, I would leverage Amazon and do at least Canada and Mexico, because you could do that pretty seamlessly without even having to put products in those countries.

But you could market to those countries through their FBA, um, mechanism. So I think. Look at other marketplaces, look at ways to grow your business and think of cool, creative ways to protect your branding, get customers to come back to your site. So you can have a conversation with them. So you can have a relationship with them.

And I think by doing both, you're going to get the leakage. 

Claus Lauter: Adam, that was a masterclass in how to double your revenue by using more than one channel. Thanks for that. Where can people find out more about you guys? 

Adam Shaffer: Well, they could go to feltsunited. com, P H E L P F, united. com. And you can hit me on LinkedIn at Adam Schaefer and find me on LinkedIn.

I'm there and I respond. So please look us up, say hello. And if you have questions, let us know. We'll answer them. 

Claus Lauter: I will put the links in the show notes as always. Then you just want to thank 

Adam Shaffer: you. Thank you very much. Cliff. 

Claus Lauter: Cool. Thanks so much for your time today and hope to talk to you soon. 

Adam Shaffer: Thank you.

Claus Lauter: Hey, Claus here. Thank you for joining me on another episode of the e commerce Coffee Break podcast. Before you go, I'd like to ask two things from you. First, please help me with the algorithm so I can bring more impactful guests on the show. It will make it also easier for others to discover the podcast.

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