Claus Lauter: Welcome to the e commerce coffee break podcast. In today's episode, we talk about how to master efficient cross border e logistics in Europe and why sustainable logistics are key to your e commerce success. Joining me on the show today is Rolando Casanova, Managing Director of internel. eu. So let's dive right into it.
Voice Over: This is the e commerce coffee break. A top rated Shopify growth podcast dedicated to Shopify merchants and business owners looking to grow their online stores. Learn how to survive in the fast changing e commerce world. With your host Klaus Lauter and get marketing advice you can't find on Google.
Welcome, welcome to the show.
Claus Lauter: Hello and welcome to another episode of the e commerce coffee break podcast. Today we want to talk about sustainable logistics and why they are key in e commerce success. Joining me on the show today is Rolando Casanova. He is the managing director of internel. eu, a leading e commerce fulfillment company.
With 25 years in logistics, Rolando's career spans from hands on experience in Uganda to leadership roles in European pharmaceutical operations. As a consultant, he has helped over 250 organizations optimize their supply chains, and today Rolando focuses on driving innovation and sustainability in e commerce logistics, serving more than a hundred clients across the European Union.
So let's welcome him to the show. Hi, Rolando. How are you today?
Rolando Casanova: Thanks very much for welcoming me, Klaus. I'm fine. Thanks. Everything's great here on that end.
Claus Lauter: Well, I know let's dive into logistics in Europe there in the EU, more than I think 27 countries or something like that. So it's a lot of countries, a lot of border crossing, going back and forth there for merchants that are coming from the US and want to start selling in the EU.
That might be a bit of a hassle now dealing with a complete different market. Can you walk me through the biggest challenges that you see online business face when expanding into cross border European markets? Sure.
Rolando Casanova: I think there is one myth that happens when people try and conquer Europe. They believe that we are one country, the European Union, and we are not.
Obviously, as you said before, there's 27 countries, member countries there, and there's 27 different, I would say, Consumers who have their preferred carrier, who have a different VAT scheme, who have regionalized West or Eastern Europe, South or Northern Europe, different expectations. When they buy online, what would they like to get?
Who should be delivering the parcel? How What payment methods should they use? So there is a lot of, I would say, differentiation here. And what we see from our customers when they come and want to conquer Europe with us, that we do, and that's obviously part of our service, help them to understand that the person in Italy demands another service, is happier with another service than, for example, a person in Austria or a person in Poland, right?
So it's understanding, I would say, the differences of cultures and obviously trying to make consumers, as I call them, having a great, happy shopping experience. By adapting or embracing those, those, those changes or these, the things they need, right?
Claus Lauter: As a fulfillment provider, you just mentioned the different countries.
People have different expectations on payment on how they receive it. How do you support that? How do you consult your clients in getting the right solution?
Rolando Casanova: What we'd like or what we do first, we have a research team. in house and we're actually looking every year how the EU, the major, not everyone, not 27 states though, but at least how the major 12 or 14 markets develop what consumers want.
Um, what's the new trends as an example, uh, ecology or, or the payment methods. And what we do throughout the year with our logistics team, we're trying, obviously, if we see a trend that we feel is, is adding value to the customers and to our online traders, And they're offering, we try to embrace that trend.
That means there is sometimes throughout the year, for example, the case that we change a carrier and that's not because he's cheaper, the carrier, or he's because he, he may have much more offering, for example, parcel locker stations that is now very hot in Europe, whereas in some countries, the carriers don't have that.
Or we may see, Um, that there are other payment methods, as I can give you, for example, an example, if you look at Northern Europe, no one wants to pay cash on delivery. Obviously, who wants, which online trader would like to have that? No one wants it. It costs money. Also, we, as an e fulfillment house, we don't want to have it, but it's a fact that the more south and east you go, you have Greece with about 45 percent of, of cash on delivery rate.
You have Poland, 30 percent check 20 to Italy still with around 20%. So, so you need to think when you come to Europe, do I also want to attract those 20 percent or I just want to turn them off because that's the way they like it, whether we like it or not on the selling side, right? So I think. That's what happens on our side is the constant analysis, what happens in the market, and if we see the trend, we adapt and we obviously embrace it because all that matters here and seeing that's what all the online businesses agree is the shopping experience of the consumer.
So if a rude person rings the doorbell, if a damaged or dirty parcel arrives or doesn't even arrive, That's normally the consumer gone. He she will not return or will leave a one star mark. And I think that's the, in principle, the last mile done by the online trader or by companies like us is actually the first contact of the customer with the eShop, but from seeing the product online and getting it.
Uh, obviously purchase through the cart, it's the physical arrival that is, it's like you walk in a shop, you walk in a shop in a good old time brick and mortar shop and, and the shop is nice and beautiful. That's what is online as well. And then you, you, you may have a rude or an unfriendly shop assistant that spoils your shopping experience.
And that's pretty much the same when we have customers working with us and we would, and obviously we don't, but when you have dirty parcels coming or. Or a problem with payment terms that you can't really, the person can't really pay by credit card at the doorstep as he or she would like to do. So our job is to embrace that, to spot the sense from the nonsense, not everything that is trending makes sense or is still there in a couple of years.
And to offer that to our customers as a value added thing, because it's all about gaining customers confidence and trust. And that's done by obviously trying to deliver the way they like they choose. So,
Claus Lauter: I think, I think you touched on a couple of very, very important factors there that online versions, specifically even us don't really think about.
First of all, I like that you highlight that there is different payment preferences. Over Europe, Greece, for instance, as I said, paying cash, um, that might be for a US seller, something that's not very common for them. So if they expanding into Europe, they need to keep that in mind. And I like the comparison that you had that the delivery is the first contact with your brand, your physical contact with your brand.
So that's why it's so important to have. A good shipping, clean parcel, whatever, a friendly person, person delivering your goods. Now, I think one thing to also that's, I wouldn't say it's trendy, but it's very important is sustainability, eco friendly, and I think you are on the forefront there when it comes to that.
Tell me what it means to be having sustainable logistics. I
Rolando Casanova: think, first, I don't want to play the moralist here, but I mean, we need to understand e commerce is not an ecological business as such. And as any business, we pollute, I mean, we buy products in China or wherever we send them over to consumers.
But I think as a forefront, as you call us, but we also have customers and obviously we know of businesses who Who are doing the logistics by themselves, who are in the forefront. I think it's all about taking things serious and trying to reduce as much as we can waste and obviously use, I would say, right materials.
Um, there is a, this is a trend that has started with us, which is actually quite funny. We were approached seven years ago by a UK. online business and they liked our offer and they said we're very happy. However, you don't really have ecological or sustainable things or materials in your, in your offering.
And we said, well, yeah, we're trying, you know, we've done all the things that everyone does. We're reducing the waste. We have certificates for sustainable building of our warehouses, but we're not really so much into green. And we changed. First, admittedly, we changed because we wanted to have this customer.
But as we realized we were deep diving into what it means to source different materials, to test them, to, to, to spare, I would say the planet of plastics. Um, I would say we became real experts. We do a lot. Um, and we help our customers. I mean, customers work with us. They know that, that with us, there is no plastic.
I mean, every child has seen all those pictures, which you see from the oceans. You travel the world, you see bottles all over the place in every sea, in every Lake on every shore. Um, so one first decision for us was we want to become plastic free. Now, when I say we are a hundred percent plastic free, I'm a liar.
I don't want to name any brands, but obviously we do serve marketplaces. Uh, marketplaces have a standard, uh, requirement. They want pallets wrapped in plastic, and it has to be black. And there is no alternative, which is not black plastic, other than the classical plastic products you have. But 99 percent of what we do is plastic.
Paper or is from renewable sources like sugar cane or corn starch for materials. And I think when we started this journey seven years ago, we didn't really know what it all had. We looked into classical boxes. Only by the time, as we are obviously also realized, it's not so cheap. We need to try and reduce the costs, but still keep it good.
The parcels need to look nice. The consumers need to know in a good sense that the brands working with us or the brands shipping are wanting to do the best of ecology and sustainability. And they mean it serious. greenwashing. Yeah. I'll come to that if I may later, because there's a lot going on as in every industry.
Um, And I think this is what customers embrace. I mean, it's not only the way the parcel looks like, but when they open the unboxing experience, what do they find in there? Um, do they find plastics, paper? How is it packed? Because you can ruin a parcel also with paper. Now, I don't want to go too much into techniques here of how we do.
Um, but what I can say is our team enjoyed the journey. Um, I did not have very ecological staff here a couple of years ago, even me, I was quite ecological, but I would say now we are really the front runner and the people like it. I see people are proud of what we do, um, for our customers. And, um, when I have visitors on site, first of all, apparently it looks like a hospital.
It's so clean. I see all those nice, beautiful plastic. Carton boxes, not plastic boxes, obviously they're very delighted because this is, they know this is what their customers get. Uh, this is what goes on the road a million times in Europe and that makes us happy. Um, and we have very good feedback from our customers.
Now, of course, when you go online to mark an online store, whether you'd like it or not, normally you give it a one star. If you're unhappy, that's the truth. And normally you rate negative. I would say it's probably the ratio is probably. One to three positive versus negative ratings. But what we do see when we talk to our customers that they say you ship nice parcels that consumers like to get these.
Um, so it's a, it's a, I would say a trick for us as a company. We are still moving on. We just last week decided to change some, we were actually going back from starch material of sugar cane to corn. Because we also need to look a bit where these materials come from. I mean, what is eco? Eco can be from, from Latin America.
It's maybe not very eco if it comes to Europe or Northern America. So, so the journey is still on, but it's a great one. We see, we feel that also with our clients. Yeah.
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com. And now back to the show. We'll I think that gives a very good overview that a 3PL partner is not just a shipping company. It goes far further than that. And obviously being eco friendly, being sustainable can be a huge part of your marketing strategy in being an online merchant. Now, You also have distribution centers and for the last mile regional centers.
Tell me how you put that into place that the delivery is fast and also eco friendly.
Rolando Casanova: Well, first of all, we try, we try to avoid airplanes. I mean, there is, there is always an option to have express deliveries and this, we all know this goes by air. And there are, I would say that road deliveries, that's the most ecological, if we can talk about ecology here.
Um, and it's a speed. One is one day within Europe. The other is maybe two, three, four days, depending on where the country is. Um, so one thing is, is, is I would say financial sink. Um, when we go out and we negotiate with the carrier. The sense of our regional centers mainly is to have national freight charges.
Now, I can give you an example. If I send a kg parcel from Poland, as an example, to Spain, I may pay around 10 euros. Um, if I, however, with the same courier, it doesn't matter which it is, the same person rings the doorbell in Spain. If I ship this, um, by road, but then later on through the regional hub, which we have with a national courier again, same person rings, I can do it for four euros.
Now that's the price we give to our clients. And that means actually that ecology. is not expensive. It does not. It's not. This is a myth that people say, yeah, we can do ecology, but it costs 2 or two euros more. It doesn't, it may cost 10 cents more or 15. So if you do send a parcel or a shopping order out with 25 or euros of value, the 15 cents is not really anything that that makes, makes us poorer.
Um, so the, the hub strategy is to try and, and ship locally. with local carriers, um, and to avoid, avoid air. Now, sometimes we have the case if someone wants it very quick. So we don't have any options, but obviously our standard message is say, dear client, we can do that. Obviously we're talking to the online merchant here, not to the consumer.
Uh, please bear in mind, it costs three times more. It really does, but it's also, well, not the most ecological. We are not teachers here or professors to tell them what to do, but we'd like to sensitize them that it all has a price. Right. Um, so that's, I would say, pretty much the structure which goes on the road.
Can't offer train. Train is, uh, definitely nothing that I would say is developed in Europe when it comes to freight trains or freight, uh, transfer of parcels or pallets with parcel into the different countries. So he does go by road does.
Claus Lauter: Yeah. Now, you have consulted hundreds of organizations and brands coming into Europe and talk me through the typical consulting and then all the onboarding process to get them started in Europe.
Well, first of all, obviously it's the
Rolando Casanova: analysis part where we look at what the customer wants, actually, which market. He, she, or which market the customer wants to develop, because there are some ideas to develop Europe, Europe as a whole. It doesn't work. You need to set a foothold somewhere in an area, whether it's in the central Germany, North, East, whatever.
If you have a highly innovative product, you may start in the Nordics where people are very honest, honest, sorry. They're very, very advanced. I would say technologically, um, if you have. A product which is would say rather a fashionable item you start in the South. So we look at what's the product the customer has to try and set with the customer together the standpoints of where is the main distribution site.
Um, then obviously we do have two distribution centers. We try to, To, to, to to, to make a structure for the customers to define what services, how fast it has to be. Um, when we are there, we make together a plan of, of when we roll out with client in each market. And that's then pretty much fast when we have the plan per country.
And when we have defined, and that's what we were talking before, the packaging material standards. There are customers who say, I have branded materials. Yeah, I mean, of course I have my own brands on it and we source that too. Of course, if we can always with FSC certification, recycled paper, whatever. Um, so we do the brand consulting or the packaging material organization, and then obviously comes the classical things like IT integration with Shopify apps or with API integrators, whatever that means, uh, from receiving the stocks, shipping and packing and sending.
So I will say the consulting part of it is actually the longest one because we We, we analyze as a team, we give feedback, transparent, and we try to be as honest as possible, obviously, because politics doesn't work out. Um, we also sometimes need to, we have sometimes clients who come with shiny eyes, you know, they're like, they see that they are going to sell multimillion dollars of.
Products here in Europe. And sometimes we are also those who say, look, we're not seeing it. So Rosie, that's probably politically not correct, but it's to avoid and say, well, maybe you want to drop that product. Maybe you want to come into that. Maybe this product is not good for this market. And that's not because we're the gurus of marketing.
That's because we're shipping 10 thousands of parcels and we know the return rate. We know pretty much which market Excel first. Um, so consulting part is probably around two, three weeks. And honestly, the whole integration part from the moment we have the products is going to be 10 days, 12 days. Uh, that's very fast.
Um, but it's important that someone who starts to work with us or another fulfillment house is like a partnership. It's, you need to like each other. You need to understand each other. Both parties need to. Believe in their products. So we need to believe in a product of the online merchant and the online merchants obviously needs to believe in our product, our service and say, all right, these guys, they know what they're doing.
They're not just talking rubbish, but they get the job done. So once this part is over, service part is pretty easy. I mean, there is one thing that, um, I shouldn't say this in that podcast, but there is a myth here about logistics as well. Logistics, e logistics or e fulfillment logistics is innovative.
It's not. We are doing the same as we did 20 years ago. I mean, we, 20 years ago, we sent pallets along and sea containers. Now we ship parcels. And the only innovation I can see, uh, I would say is yes, I'm talking about logistics, not about the artificial intelligence thing on the shopping chart, but I'm talking about logistics is yes, you can now track your parcel for the last 10 years.
And yes, you may download an app to know where it is exactly at the moment with which carrier or in which road it is. Um, the rest is the same, um, saying that I think again, I'm coming to what I said before the tendency of the e shops. And the carriers is very often to neglect the last mind. And that's really, yes, you can track the parcel, how it arrives with the client, but it just needs to arrive.
Well, that's the only chance to have this person coming back to buy. Unless you really have the unique, magnificent brand that no one has a choice than coming to you. So, so that's pretty much, I would say to that topic.
Claus Lauter: You were mentioning API connections. Um, obviously a lot of our listeners are running Shopify stores, and I think you have a Shopify integration as well.
Tell me a little bit, a little bit about that. We do
Rolando Casanova: have our own app. We have our in house IT team who has developed a, a listed app. It's privately listed, but it's there. So obviously if someone contacts us, we happily give the app. The app's integrated within, I would say, two hours, three hours. Um, and actually only because we also ask that it's downloaded obviously from the app store.
And normally our IT asks the customer or one of their team members to make a couple of test orders extra to do wrong orders to serve. Give a country that we don't serve, Nepal or, or, or anything that we are not reaching or to make by purpose mistakes, because obviously the app gives feedback on orders on the order status.
And that's it. And normally after those two, three hours of testing. We're ready to go. Of course, we then need to book in the products, which is done in house. And within 24 hours, the customer can go live. So it's a very simple thing. And, and the app normally works for non technical guys. Even I was able to do it.
And I'm really, absolutely the opposite of any, I don't understand techniques. I even struggle sometimes when I look in a Shopify, Shopify system, which our it shows us, but so this is easy and everyone can do it. Even me. Right.
Claus Lauter: Okay. I want to touch on one thing, um, returns, obviously your merchants, your brands that you're serving are not based in the EU.
How do you deal with returns? How is the process there?
Rolando Casanova: Well, there's, there's two ways of dealing with it, obviously. I mean, first of all, I think important to, we have, we have sometimes at the beginning in the analysis phase. Online, uh, merchants who say we don't want to return. Well, we don't like returns either.
It just costs money, but I think it's important not to try and stop the return in a, in a, I would say cheeky way by not enclosing any return labels or return information, hoping that the client may be, or I want to return is a. Pain to get it out of the internet. I'm not doing this. So it should be also part of the shopping experience that if someone really wants to return, he or she should be able to do that easily.
So that means all parcels we have, they have return instructions. And actually, I have to be careful not to tell a lie. I think it's 22 languages. So first we talk that the language. And this is our system doing. We took the language of the consumer because not everyone does speak English. So there's 22 different ways of how to return.
Obviously, they're either returned to our regional hubs, which makes the returns cheap, or they're returned with a label. So the consumer just adds the label and obviously, uh, hands it in to the local whatever courier, uh, post office. So that's easy. Then they're collected in our hubs and they all come together in two places.
In, in Europe, in our two distribution centers, and that's usually a process that takes about, I would say, two, three days. where they're opened, qualified. And of course, if we can, our team will make the return sellable again. We have many customers who, who give us obviously, or, or they store with us replacement articles, replacement packaging, material components.
We'll bring it in. We will test the product. If it's an electronics item, um, to see if it can still be done. And obviously Um, if we cannot make it happen, there are, I would say, pragmatic ways we collect the returns, and then it's the customers who tell us what to do. Some say bring it to recycling if it's about electronics.
Some sell it to wholesalers who buy tons of electronics or even clothes. Um, so we pretty much do what the, what the customer wants us to do. Uh, it's usually a pity if we have to destroy, but obviously when we talk about, I would say, cosmetic dietary supplements, we have to destroy them. We do have on site recycling containers for these materials where recycling companies come and dispose of that.
Um, so our main focus obviously is to avoid the return and if we can to bring the product back in shape for another sales. Um, I'm not able to tell you the percentage because it will be just a guesstimate of what we are able to save. But I would say the majority of the returns can be reused if they're done properly.
It's just a small fraction that really goes to be eliminated, disposed of, or whatever.
Claus Lauter: Let's assume I'm a brand outside of the EU. I want to sell into the EU. Is there any kind of homework that I need to do before I approach you, before I can get started?
Rolando Casanova: Yes. I mean, we, we, we also have, uh, we have information for, I would say, non EU retailers. So it doesn't matter if someone is from the US or from the UK or from Japan.
Whatever means coming into the European Union needs. I would say two basic things. First of all, again, that's coming in the part of the consultancy parties. What's the product? Because if the product is a sensitive one, the online merchant will need an office in the European Union, whether they like it or not, that can be a virtual office.
It needs to be someone, this is legal. It needs to be someone who takes product responsibility. Because no one will, I mean, some states will not allow, for example, dietary supplements from the U. S. to be sold to the consumer in France, which would mean in case there would be any problem with the product, no one would be, could be actually grabbed in Europe.
They would have to sue a U. S. or a Japanese or a Korean company. So, uh, There is one thing that a virtual office or even a sales affiliate office that is not expensive and and it can be done within two, three weeks is required in most of the cases. It's also like that, that national consumers like to buy from someone, they will check who is the online store.
And yes, if it's a brand that is from the U. S. or from, from South Korea, that is very well known. Uh, they, they may trust it, but they still look at who is the person, who is the company I will return to, who is the company that I would like to go to in case I have some problems. So there is a classical mistake that people would publish a U.
S. or, or, or, or, I don't know, a Mexican address and, and, and be surprised that they get no orders with that. Um, So it needs to be a local affiliate or virtual office. That's number one. And obviously this office, and that's also a fairytale that is often that they, people think they can just send a container of products into Europe.
Uh, it doesn't work because obviously at entry into Europe. VAT and potentially duties need to be paid. And for that, this company needs to have what is called a customs number. It's an EORI number. It's to be registered with any, it can be any country of the 27 of choice. Um, ideally it's one that speaks English.
There are actually two three, which do not provide that service. We know that. So we tell actually where to go, which we have experiences from our clients to register this. So-called Eori number for the, for the import of goods and the VAT number because obviously even a company from from overseas will have to charge the German, the French, the, the Polish, the Czech consumer with VAT.
Um. Overall, if served from a European warehouse, and that means obviously someone needs to give some money to some government in the European Union. That's a one stop shop solution has pretty easy, but it requires an agent to work on behalf. So there are some tricks, which I'm happy to share also, because we have this very neutrally made what to consider when coming into Europe as a physical setup for, for the online merchant, which helps once this is done.
It's easy and it's pretty easy to start to set really either with us or with someone else in the fulfillment, which countries first, depending on what product they have, what they want to achieve, um, and how flexible it is. Because one thing is also important, as I said about our delivery notes or return forms, we do speak here many, many languages.
There are some, some ideas, ah, let's supply Europe with English. That doesn't work. I mean, or we have, uh, we have also customers from the east, I would say, of Europe and, and they sometimes also have ideas. We would like to sell, I don't know, cash and deliveries throughout all the Europe. And we say these terms do not exist in Scandinavia.
They don't exist in the uk and, and it's vice versa. It doesn't work to just have English in all the European Union or Europe because yes, we all do speak that, but we all like our native language. Absolutely. So that's pretty much the hint and we're happy to write
Claus Lauter: that obviously. Okay. It shows me that you're doing much more than just shipping.
It's, it's a very complex process. It's very important to have a very skilled partner on your side. Tell me a little bit about your pricing structure. How does that work?
Rolando Casanova: We have, we have actually two structures. We have, I would say the highly innovative Yeah, which is one price for everything. And that means we, we say it depends obviously very much on the product.
If, if an online merchant has moving stock and moving stock is, is stuck, that moves, I would say at least four times a year, at least the majority of the items. We have a one pricing model. It says, this is your price for the receipt storage, the pick and pack with ecological materials, excluding the freight, because obviously that depends how heavy is the parcel and where it goes, um, including return handling.
So there is one and the only trigger here is, um, how many orders you have. Is it 500? Is it 5, 000? Is it 20, 000? Obviously the more cars I buy with the car dealer, the better my price. Um, that in terms of the volume, we have a second one, which is for the, for the products. I would say that classical products, uh, giving you textile.
And as an example where you don't really know how that's going to work out, um, or where Customers, uh, online merchants, they buy overseas. They have to take a couple of container loads, so it's clear they don't want to do that every month. Um, so the stock's not moving so much. Then we have the classical tariffs, which is the position for the, for the receipts, scanning quality control, the storage per month, the pick and pack, and there it goes to size.
Obviously, if a parcel is very small, it's excess, then it's going to be priced out. If it's a huge parcel, because we are shipping a gaming chair, It has obviously not a current parcel price because the parcel itself costs. So there is a base price, the parcel price, and that's pretty. So the structure is very easy.
I would say within 15 minutes, the max, everyone knows what they pay when they work with us.
Claus Lauter: Now that sounds good. Before we come to the end with our coffee break today, is there anything that you want to share with our listeners that we haven't covered yet?
Rolando Casanova: I would like to invite you to come to Europe.
I'm still an enthusiast. I mean, we do have inquiries, I mean, on a daily basis. And as I said, a few minutes before, sometimes they're a bit funny because the products are an idea of someone and they don't have a lot of potential. And we know that. And it's hard to tell this customer, Hey, we're not really.
believing what you're doing. But there is also a part that is scared, that may have had experiences in one market in Europe. Many overseas companies, for example, they had their headquarters in the UK. After Brexit, they were kind of cut off and they realized it's not easy. But I would like to say. And I mean that come to Europe.
I mean, this is a, it's a great market. And, and the obstacle are not so many. Um, once you set foot with a great partner, it doesn't need to be us. There are great partners. There are great logistics company out there. It's easy. It's not a problem because as I said, there are 22 languages or 27, we cover that.
This is covered. So come and don't be scared of, of embracing. I would say it. a great territory with great online clients, but there is also buying potential. So don't be scared of the complex things that, that, that there may sound they're not. As long as you take the first hurdle is virtual office, AORI number, VAT number, there you go, free sales.
And
Claus Lauter: that's all. Okay. Makes perfect sense. Europe, hundreds of millions of potential buyers out there and having a partner on your side that helps you with the administration, with the languages and so on and so forth. Sounds like a good solution. Where can people find out more about you guys?
Rolando Casanova: Well, they can obviously find us on the web, which is, uh, internal instead of internet with a T at the end.
It's one L internal dot EU. And, uh, I think they're everything is standing. Then they will reach out and they get an answer. They will see when they contact us that we're a bit different. They get an answer within the first within one day for sure. And it's, I would say a nonstandard answer. And then I think what will happen to them is if we obviously embrace us and they work together.
Yeah. they will become also e commerce stars, right? It says somewhere down this shirt with the fulfillment by internet.
Claus Lauter: All right. Yeah. That's, that's the goal. That's the goal of the podcast as well to create as many internet stars as possible out there. Rolando, thanks so much for your time today. I learned a ton about 3PL, about being sustainability, and I think our listeners will learn a lot as well.
And I hope a lot of people will reach out to you. I will put the links in the show notes, so you will be just one click away. Thanks so much for your time today.
Rolando Casanova: Thanks for having me there. Bye Klaus. Bye everybody.
Claus Lauter: Hey, Klaus here. Thank you for joining me on another episode of the e commerce coffee break podcast.
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